HDTV Channels w/basic cable sub, or HD sub also req?

[Trekboy]

:?: I currently only have RR service @ my house w/out basic cable. I just purchased a Hitachi 65" HDTV today w/built in HDTV tuner (it's being delivered Sunday) My question is this: If I were to subscribe to basic cable, and have an HDTV TV w/a built in HDTV tuner, is there a separate subscription I would need for the HDTV channels, or would they be included w/the basic service? I live in the North Pinellas area.

Thanks!

[chupacabra]

Trekboy,
As I understand it, you have to upgrade to a digital service first in order to subscribe to HD packages for BH. If you have a built in tuner, you can get away with an OTA antenna to get the free programming on local digital channels.

Chupacabra

[Trekboy]

That's what I needed to know. Now, off to Best Buy! LOL Thanks!

[qqqqq]

Give it a shot. Your built in tuner needs to handle QAM (cable) which is different from ATSC (OTA). If it does check CADTV channels 79 and 106.

I am able to get basic HD channels from BHN even though I don't subscribe to the digital plan (I have the standard analog pkg, which goes up to about channel 77, as well as Earthlink internet via the cable modem).

I get 79-613 FOX, 79-628 ABC, 106-610 CBS, and 106-603 WEDU as well as some multi-cast WEDU and WUSF PBS stations. I used to get the INHD and DISC channels as well as video on demand but they all show up as scrambled now.

[Trekboy]

Amazing! I hooked up my RR line to my TV, and not only do I get basic cable, but the VERY LIMITED amount of HD stations BHN carries also come in. I wish they'd carry all the local HD stations. Isn't there a "must carry" rule? Shouldn't that apply to HD stations as well? After all, those are being "broadcast" just like SD stations...

If BHN actually carried all the stations that were broadcast I would subscribe to their HD package instead of trying to mess w/outdoor antennas. I've tried 3 indoor antennas (all amplified) and they all suck for my area (central Pinellas County) Just to see if it would work, I actually ran a cable line from my TV to my hot water heater and wrapped it around the copper cold water pipe. I actually get decent signal strength on most stations, but it was hit or miss depending on (I guess) how much wire was wrapped around the pipe or the phase of the moon or something. If I thought I could get HD reliably by doing that, I'd just run a wire through the attic down to the hot water heater and solder it on :) LOL

[bdraw]

The must carry works the other way. If a station is in the area they can force the cable company to carry their channel. But the cable company can't force the networks to let them carry their channel.

The problem is that the networks want more.
NBC wants all their sub channels carried, rather than just the main channel.
WB wants to be paid for their channel. They are managed by sinclair and not a single sinclair station is on cable in the US.

No one seems to know the real reason why UPN isn't carried, but I would guess is some what similiar to NBC's situation.

Consider yourselves lucky. I used to have cable and now only have RR, and it didn't take long for them to come out and add a filter to block basic. I live in an apartment complex and the Salesman is on top of his filters.

Ben

[Trekboy]

I remember that when I moved to the house (almost 6 years ago) that the RR installer said I was pretty close to the end of the line and the signal was weaker than normal. I'm guessing the signal strength is at the low end (although I can't complain about by RR speed) and that they can't add a filter to the line w/out hosing my RR connection.

Bwa ha ha! Now I just need to take one class @ SPC or USF to get the discount so I get RR, basic cable and HD cable for $40/month! Maybe I'll sign up for a class, get a student ID #, apply for the discount and then cancel the class and get a refund!

LOL - that's too much work...

[bdraw]

Or threaten to canel and they will give you 6 months for $32/mo

[qqqqq]

Amazing! I hooked up my RR line to my TV, and not only do I get basic cable, but the VERY LIMITED amount of HD stations BHN carries also come in.

So what channels do they show up on on your TV?

[qqqqq]

Consider yourselves lucky. I used to have cable and now only have RR, and it didn't take long for them to come out and add a filter to block basic. I live in an apartment complex and the Salesman is on top of his filters.

Are you saying that you used to get the digital broadcast channels but after downgrading to just RR you can't get them anymore? Or are you saying you can't get the analog versions anymore? I'd guess you're talking about the analog ones. Anybody else please jump in here if I'm wrong, I'd like to learn all that I can...but here's what I think:

I'm pretty sure that actual frequencies which carry the channels are split like this:

5 - 54MHz, upstream cable modem (CM) traffic
54 - 216MHz, channels 2-22 + 95-99, limited basic tier
216 - 552MHz, channels 23-78, standard cable
552 - 800MHz+, channels 79-125+, digital cable (SD & HD) and downstream CM traffic

That upper band is the one of interest here. Because the data is digitized, many SDTV subchannels can fit into one standard 6MHz channel. This is why the digital tier of well over 100 channels can be carried in just 57 standard channels with room to spare for HD and CM. In fact 2 HD channels can fit into one standard channel, with room for a few of SD channels (e.g. on my TV CATV ch 79 I get subchannel 613, 615-618, and 628 which are FOX HD, 4 WUSF SD and ABC HD).

I don't know if BHN has further subdivided this band, or if the CM and TV traffic are intermixed. I'm guessing not because that might limit their options. Anyhow for most of the channels they just digitally encrypt them to prevent unauthorized reception. Once the infrastructure is in place to do this (set top boxes) this is a lot cheaper than sending out installers with filters. For some reason they haven't done this yet with these HD and SD channels. I'm guessing there may be a regulation, but I don't know.

Check out the following:
http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/cablech.htm.
http://www.phptr.com/articles/article.asp?p=169518&seqNum=5

[Trekboy]

I never had basic cable w/them as I have a satellite dish. I have always had just RR, but if I split the connection before I hookup the line to my cable modem, and put a powered amplifier on the output going to my TVs, I get the basic cable channels from Brighthouse nice and clear (for the most part, the upper channels tend to have a little interferance, but I can live w/that).

For grins I hooked up the cable feed to my HD tuner in the TV and did a channel scan, and I get the unscrambled HD channels! Once BH adds all the local HD channels, I'll put that back on instead of the outdoor antenna I recently purchased (so I don't get any digital dropouts from low signal strength)

[Dknow]

I hooked up my D* HD receiver's cable in to BHN's line and it found no digital channels. This receiver does tune digital cable but it will only scan cable up to channel 135. Are the digital channels in the 600's or something or should my receiver have picked them up?

[qqqqq]

I hooked up my D* HD receiver's cable in to BHN's line and it found no digital channels. This receiver does tune digital cable but it will only scan cable up to channel 135. Are the digital channels in the 600's or something or should my receiver have picked them up?

I'm getting HD channels on 79 and 106. What model receiver are you using?

[Dknow]

HTL-HD and I have unfiltered BHN

[qqqqq]

HTL-HD and I have unfiltered BHN


I don't think that receiver handles digital cable (QAM).

I searched this manual (http://www.directv.com/learn/pdf/System_Manuals/Hughes/HNS_HTL-HD.pdf) for QAM and "digital cable" and didn't find any hits, and on page 9 it has a diagram with an "analog cable" source.

[Dknow]

Well that PDF manual just answered my question. In the actual manual that came with the unit there is an illustration of a screen shot showing "channel 125 cable/digital". That page online is now blank. I guess they printed the manual before the product was finished and decided not to go with a digital cable turner. Hence why they deleted that page on the PDF. It's PDF page 80 but manual page 79. I get all of my HD channels perfectly OTA so I wouldn't have a need for the cable input, but I was curious to see it work. Thanks for the legwork.

[jgs9455]

See my findings in

http://www.tampahdtv.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=6278