BHN Cable Card / 1394 access

[bmw68]

Has anyone heard News about BHN availability / Use of the new cable cards?
What is the FCC Take on this are ie when are they required to make this available to us? In addition I thought they were to also have 1394 access made available to we the customer? Thoughts?

[tampahank]

There are a small number of 1394 boxes available. But I'd warn you that boxes with this are still somewhat new technology and can be problematic.

As for cable card, nearly the same thing.. though I'd really stress you wait on getting one of those. BHN has had consistant problems with cable card installs.. some go fine without issues, others not so much. Some TVs work fine, others do not. BHN has even found some tvs that need firmware upgrades to work properly. BHN and TWC are working with CableLabs on the sfotware for the cable cards. Additionally, you limit the services you can recieve with a cable card. I'd really stress not trying to get one, but you can get them.

[bdraw]

I had a 3250 w/ 1394 the box worked perfectly, although the 1394 port didn't communicate as well with my TV as I would have liked, but most people don't have TV's with Net command or any other HAVI controller so they won't have the problem. The only other use is with a DVHS deck, which works well, with the VCR commander that the SA box has. If you want to record with a DVHS it is great. Or if you have a TV with Net command (Mitsu/RCA) then it is good, otherwise it is not very usefull for now.

As for Cable card, it is new so anything new comes with problems. The key is that you don't have to have STB to watch Digital Cable which is great. Don't worry about the problem that is BHN's job to work out. They do have to get them worked out eventually. But if you don't have a lot of patience than you should listen to tampahank and avoid it. Read over at the AVS for all the problem others are having. It is a great concept that will be dominant eventually.

[tampahank]

As for Cable card, it is new so anything new comes with problems. The key is that you don't have to have STB to watch Digital Cable which is great. Don't worry about the problem that is BHN's job to work out. They do have to get them worked out eventually. But if you don't have a lot of patience than you should listen to tampahank and avoid it. Read over at the AVS for all the problem others are having. It is a great concept that will be dominant eventually.

I agree that it's a great idea, definately. Alot of people don't care about "advanced services" (video on demand, etc), so one way isn't a problem, and this drops their bills over a box rental..

But it's definately not there yet.. at least in my opinion. Everyone is having problems with it, I've seen reports of huge issues form all across the country. And some TVs work like a champ, others.. not so much... it really is hit and miss. I'm just saying for now, if you want to play with it, it's fine, but I'd keep a regular set top over a cable card.. for now..

It really is a neat idea.

[bmw68]

Thanks Guys

[ShaneK]

Can anyone verify that premium channels are not viewable using the CableCard? The literature does not seem to say anything about not getting the premiums but at least two BHN technicians have said that it will not?

[bdraw]

You get the premiums channels.

The only thing you don't get is the IPG or PPV.

[N715DP]

"Advanced Services" will not work with the CableCard... this includes:

Pay Per View
Interactive Guide
xOD (HBO on Demand, Cinemax on Demand, Favorites on Demand, Movies on Demand...)

Also, not 100% sure on things like the MLB, NASCAR, MLS... they are basically PPV events, so I don't think they work withe CableCard either.

[bdraw]

Pesonally it wouldn't bother me, and if my TV had a good IPG then I would go with the cable card. I have D* now so it is not an option. Plus I have a Tivo on all my TV's so can't get around a box either way. AT this point Tivo is more important to me than not having a STB.

But then again a new Mitsubishi TV right around the corner supports cable card, and has a built in DVR.

Too bad it isn't powerd by Tivo ;)

[ned]

One of the advantage of cablecard is having to do away with bad tuner which most cable boxes has. Your tv tuner is able to provide better PQ. Cable company is into selling services and thus boxes comes with a lot of features for you to subscribe but not quality of the cable boxes.

[Lemon]

The Cable card provides better picture quality via keeping everything digital and as someone mentioned, the tuners in your TV are better than the ones the Cable Box uses. You can also keep your connection digital with the Cable Box if you have a HDMI or DVI connection which costs a hefty price and uses a slot on the TV that can better be used for a DVD player or something.

I wish they would hurry up and replenish their stock.

[jmart4173]

Just got a cable card installed in the Carillon area of Pinellas. Tried two different cards but could not get a good picture. Very bad "tiling" (Cable guy's word) and what I would call pixellation of the picture. Almost constant on the digital and HD channels. Anyone have a problem like that and get it fixed?

I have a Mits 62725 with the latest firmware 4.05. Thanks...

Joe

[Geo]

I'm actually about to order the cablecard (OTA is just too sketchy). Is the new NBC HD channel already avalible with the card? Is the channel lineup pretty up to date or are there newer channels that are not avalible yet? :?:

[jgs9455]

I'm actually about to order the cablecard (OTA is just too sketchy). Is the new NBC HD channel already avalible with the card? Is the channel lineup pretty up to date or are there newer channels that are not avalible yet? :?:

It's available without the card.....if u can tune QAM.

[Geo]

Actually I stumbled across that last night. I hooked the cable up straight to my ant 1 on the TV (Mitsubishi ws-55515 if anyone out there is working with the same hardware) and when it captured channels I suddenly had a "few" that I could see in HD.

I did however have issues and I am not sure if this is due to wiring or what. The HD channels tile pretty bad. Now when I used the OTA it took a while to find the channel (move the OTA over here and over there) but after I got it, it did not tile. Using the cable without the cablecard (yet), it tiles. This may be due to the tuner, but I'm not sure (in fact I'm about to look up what QAM means). I'm concerned that it may be the wiring of my house. It was built in 1986 so it had the standard coax of that time. Could the issue be problems with wiring or are the signals fairly strong? I actually live off Limbaugh about 5 miles from the bright house office, anyone in the Dale Maybre and Limbaugh area having issues? I may repost this as its own thread instead of having it buried in here. Thank you for the quick response by the way jgs9455!!

[jmart4173]

I had the same tiling problems pre-CableCard on a Mits WD-62725. And unfortunately they did not go away with the cable card or firmware updates from Mits. I am returing my cable card...

Actually I stumbled across that last night. I hooked the cable up straight to my ant 1 on the TV (Mitsubishi ws-55515 if anyone out there is working with the same hardware) and when it captured channels I suddenly had a "few" that I could see in HD.

I did however have issues and I am not sure if this is due to wiring or what. The HD channels tile pretty bad. Now when I used the OTA it took a while to find the channel (move the OTA over here and over there) but after I got it, it did not tile. Using the cable without the cablecard (yet), it tiles. This may be due to the tuner, but I'm not sure (in fact I'm about to look up what QAM means). I'm concerned that it may be the wiring of my house. It was built in 1986 so it had the standard coax of that time. Could the issue be problems with wiring or are the signals fairly strong? I actually live off Limbaugh about 5 miles from the bright house office, anyone in the Dale Maybre and Limbaugh area having issues? I may repost this as its own thread instead of having it buried in here. Thank you for the quick response by the way jgs9455!!

[Geo]

Did you have the issue with OTA? Once I found a channel with the antenna feng shui I had a clear great picture, just not on threw BHN signal coming out of my wall.

[jmart4173]

Did you have the issue with OTA? Once I found a channel with the antenna feng shui I had a clear great picture, just not on threw BHN signal coming out of my wall.

I have not gotten a chance to try and antenna yet. I get a good picture via HDMI from a Pace box...

[Geo]

Well, I'm back to OTS for now, but I am going to try replaing the splitter thats somewhere in the attic with a amp and using both ota and cable signals (tv has two seperate antenna inputs). Getting closer to the goal...

[Zimmy]

Anyone know what the monthly price of a Cable Card for BHN is?

[Jodeus]

I haven't gotten my first bill yet but I think it's something like $1.75 or $2.25...of course it's not on their site.

-Jody

[Zimmy]

I haven't gotten my first bill yet but I think it's something like $1.75 or $2.25...of course it's not on their site.

-Jody

Thanks,
After going round and round with the first CSR...

"You can't have it and a HD DVR"
"We don't have it for your model TV"

I asked to speak to someone else and what do you know, they are coming out next week, no problem.
I guess it is all in who you talk to.

Anyway, they told me $1.95 a month, it isn't too bad but it really should be free as long as you have a regular box also.
It is worth it to try for a few months.
I figure I may get better quality SD and HD, and it is like adding a 3rd tuner in case I'm taping 2 shows.

[Zimmy]

Does anyone see any issue with using a 8300HD DVR with a cable card on the same TV?

To me it is just another input but I have been reading how some cable companies will disable the box if you have a card.

I'm not sure how they would know if I split the signal before reaching the stb and tv.

Just wondering.

[Jodeus]

I believe there are people on the AVS boards that are using a Cablecard as one input and the 8300HD-DVR on a separate input like HDMI.

Also there aren't different cablecards for different TVs. It's amazing how CSRs don't know anything.

-Jody

[tampahank]

Does anyone see any issue with using a 8300HD DVR with a cable card on the same TV?

To me it is just another input but I have been reading how some cable companies will disable the box if you have a card.

I'm not sure how they would know if I split the signal before reaching the stb and tv.

Just wondering.


Five points for me answering notes that are 8 or 9 months old, but..

Check your TV. Most TVs shouldn't have an issue, but especially some
early cable-card TV's would block out other inputs when a cable-card was
inserted.

AKA: It SHOULD work, and if it doesn't, scream at your TV manufacturer.
You have a 90% chance of being successful.

[sbiller]

Has anyone else lost display of channels 608 and 690 on their CableCards? I have a TiVo S3 and both CableCards are no longer displaying those channels. Will a set top box reset signal from Brighthouse reset the cards or do I need to do something else? I'm rebooting the S3 now to see if that helps.

Thxs,
Sam

[sbiller]

Has anyone else lost display of channels 608 and 690 on their CableCards? I have a TiVo S3 and both CableCards are no longer displaying those channels. Will a set top box reset signal from Brighthouse reset the cards or do I need to do something else? I'm rebooting the S3 now to see if that helps.

Thxs,
Sam

Rebooting the S3 re-initialized the CC's and appears to have fixed the problem.

[bdraw]

That seems to always resolve the CC issues with the Series3.

I have little doubt the problem is the SA CableCARDs, since just about every Series3 owner on TiVoCommunity with SA cards has the problem and Moto cards don't seem to have it.

[sbiller]

With the release of the new TiVo HD today, I was wondering when BHN will support the M-Card. Any ideas?

TIA,
Sam

[bdraw]

I just got a SA4250HDc from BHn with a multi-strem CableCARD in it.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/07/19/cablecard-2-0-caught-in-the-wild/

Of course this doesn't mean BHN will give you one, I would request one, lets us know how it turns out. Unfortunately the Series3 doesn't support M-Cards yet or I would try myself.

[sbiller]

I just got a SA4250HDc from BHn with a multi-strem CableCARD in it.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/07/19/cablecard-2-0-caught-in-the-wild/

Of course this doesn't mean BHN will give you one, I would request one, lets us know how it turns out. Unfortunately the Series3 doesn't support M-Cards yet or I would try myself.

Ben, I'm in the same boat. I will probably purchase a TiVo HD in the next few weeks so I will ask for the M-card but my guess is the operator won't know what I'm talking about. I also have a S3 and am currently paying for two S-cards.

[Macman752]

I just got a SA4250HDc from BHn with a multi-strem CableCARD in it.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/07/19/cablecard-2-0-caught-in-the-wild/

Of course this doesn't mean BHN will give you one, I would request one, lets us know how it turns out. Unfortunately the Series3 doesn't support M-Cards yet or I would try myself.

Ben,

Is your new gear the result of your discussions with BHN regarding the Golf/VS channel and CableCARD?

[bdraw]

Yeah, I meant to report back, but forgot.

They gave me a free STB the HD-pak for a year for free, but I'm getting FIOS installed this Saturday, so it's all going back.

9 More HD channels, less money per CableCARD and faster Internet. I haven't compared the total monthly expense yet, which may be more since they offer more HD movie channels than BHN.

[Macman752]

...They gave me a free STB the HD-pak for a year for free, but I'm getting FIOS installed this Saturday, so it's all going back.

It must be nice to live in the big city. Someday, Verizon may come to the rural sections of mid-Pinellas.

[bdraw]

It must be nice to live in the big city. Someday, Verizon may come to the rural sections of mid-Pinellas.

Haha, the only reason why FIOS is available in my 'hood is because when Tampa signed the franchise agreement they required service for every resident. Otherwise they would have moved right passed my old neighborhood. Unfortunately for everyone else, now that Florida has given Verizon a statewide franchise, they'll probably cherry pick the rest of the state long before servicing everyone.

[sbiller]

Yesterday evening I was able to work my way through two CSRs and ordered a M-Card for installation into my new TiVoHD next Tuesday afternoon. I was so surprised that they actually were able to provide it that I didn't even ask what the cost per month was for the M-Card. I will post again after my install experience next week. I already have an original S3 with two S-cards.

[bdraw]

Wow, thats great, can't wait to hear how it turns out. I'll be heading down the same road with fios soon, I'll report back.

[sbiller]

Wow, thats great, can't wait to hear how it turns out. I'll be heading down the same road with fios soon, I'll report back.

Bad news...

Brighthouse just showed up with an S-Card, SA Part #: PKM600 instead of the M-Card that I was supposed to receive. I have one stream working. The installer was, of course, clueless on the whole issue. I'm calling Brighthouse now to get a second S-Card or try for an M-Card again.

-Sam

[LeapFroggie]

Bad news...Brighthouse just showed up with an S-Card, SA Part #: PKM600 instead of the M-Card that I was supposed to receive. Predictable outcome. I almost posted my skepticism that they'd get this right on the first try, but I thought I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.

Once again, this is a sign that more training is required at BHN. It is a sad state of affairs when the customers know more about the technology than the provider.

[sbiller]

Predictable outcome. I almost posted my skepticism that they'd get this right on the first try, but I thought I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.

Once again, this is a sign that more training is required at BHN. It is a sad state of affairs when the customers know more about the technology than the provider.

So I called back and was put on hold for quite some time with the Sales Associate. She came back and said they only have one kind of CableCARD. Of course, she didn't know the difference between an S-Card and M-Card. She wasn't able to transfer me to tier 2 support -- claimed that the ability for a CSR to transfer a call was eliminated a few days ago. She took my information and will have a technician call me within 24 hours. I'm not expecting a positive resolution to this problem.

I did do a little more research and found this product catalog site at Scientific Atlanta --> http://www.scientificatlanta.com/products/customers/catalog.htm

The M-Card is the PKM800 (fly sheet attached).

If anyone has better luck, please post.

[LeapFroggie]

She wasn't able to transfer me to tier 2 support -- claimed that the ability for a CSR to transfer a call was eliminated a few days ago.If you can't get to a tier 2 tech from the bottom up, try it from the top down. Give Kevin Hyman's office a call.

[sbiller]

If you can't get to a tier 2 tech from the bottom up, try it from the top down. Give Kevin Hyman's office a call.

My complaint to the TampaGov Cable TV Service Complaint web site (http://www.tampagov.net/appl_customer_service_center/form.asp?strServiceID=169) may have finally paid off. I was contacted by a gentlemen named Erin in the Brighthouse customer service organization after a City of Tampa employee transferred my complaint to them. I voiced my problem with lack of M-Card availability for my TiVoHD and the cost of S-Card's.

He called me back today and said that the M-Card's will soon be available to the general public. They are in the warehouse and he will be provisioning me one very soon. He tentatively scheduled an appointment for this coming Saturday for an M-Card installation. He said that I will likely be the first recipient of an M-Card in the Tampa Bay area. They are so new that he doesn't even know what the pricing on the M-Card will be.

I will post after my install on Saturday or if any other developments take place.

[sbiller]

Two Brighthouse employees showed up a few minutes late. They had 4 M-Cards in hand. We removed the SA S-Card, popped in the new M-Card. I was up and running in less than 15 minutes.

[sbiller]

Two Brighthouse employees showed up a few minutes late. They had 4 M-Cards in hand. We removed the SA S-Card, popped in the new M-Card. I was up and running in less than 15 minutes.

My M-Card from BHN is being charged at the same $3.95 per month rate as my S-Cards. Therefore, my TiVo HD is $3.95 per month and my TiVo S3 is $7.90 per month. Looking forward to a software update to my S3 to save $3.95 per month :)

[amheck]

Hey sbiller, I have a question. I've been doing a little reading and am thinking about picking up one or two of the TivoHDs. Are the M-cards you are talking about, are those the dual tuner ones? I've read that you can either get 2 single cards, or 1 double. Is that what we are talking about here?

Just trying to figure out all of the costs to see if its worth the initial cash outlay of hardware and subscription, versus the rental and service fees of the BHN DVR's.

[Macman752]

Ars Technica has published a 3-page article on the fruitless attempt to obtain a CableCARD-ready set top box. It's a good read. It pretty much mirrors my history in trying to get BHN to support the card in my set.

[bdraw]

I didn't care for the article.

Mostly cause they completely ignore the fact that no one is going to sell a new CableCARD STB till it'll work with two-way services -- whenever that is. They ignore the fact that the CEA (you know the ones who'd make the STB) is complaining to the FCC that the current two-way Cable proposal (OCAP) isn't going to work for them.

Until the whole two-way/OCAP mess is resolved only companies like TiVo and MS are going to bother messing with one-way CableCARD host devices.

[Macman752]

I didn't care for the article.

Mostly cause they completely ignore the fact that no one is going to sell a new CableCARD STB till it'll work with two-way services -- whenever that is. They ignore the fact that the CEA (you know the ones who'd make the STB) is complaining to the FCC that the current two-way Cable proposal (OCAP) isn't going to work for them.

Until the whole two-way/OCAP mess is resolved only companies like TiVo and MS are going to bother messing with one-way CableCARD host devices.


Hey Ben, what's happened to the EngadgetHD RSS feed? Firefox is telling me that the feed has failed to load. It's been doing this since mid-day yesterday.

[bdraw]

Not sure but now that you mentioned it I just noticed that I got all the posts since yesterday.

[fly]

I would really like to get a MythTV setup working with BHN. By the sounds of this thread, I can really only get locals over 1394, correct? Is there ANY way to get all the channels off of a box and into some sort of computer?

[sbiller]

Hey sbiller, I have a question. I've been doing a little reading and am thinking about picking up one or two of the TivoHDs. Are the M-cards you are talking about, are those the dual tuner ones? I've read that you can either get 2 single cards, or 1 double. Is that what we are talking about here?

Just trying to figure out all of the costs to see if its worth the initial cash outlay of hardware and subscription, versus the rental and service fees of the BHN DVR's.

Yes. The M-Cards are dual-tuner. You need only one card per TiVo HD and BHN only bills you once.

[fly]

I would really like to get a MythTV setup working with BHN. By the sounds of this thread, I can really only get locals over 1394, correct? Is there ANY way to get all the channels off of a box and into some sort of computer?
no one?

[Bschneider]

Which BHN box do you have? I believe there is only box that works with 1394, the other ones are disabled.

[bdraw]

Yes, the SA 3250HD the last time I got one.

[tampahank]

Not every 3250HD will have the fire wire port, but BHN Tampa is required to have them available on request. Make sure you stress that you need the 1394 port on it.

hank

[fly]

Which BHN box do you have? I believe there is only box that works with 1394, the other ones are disabled.
I have the 8300HD. I know that I can demand that they enable the firewire, or give me one with firewire enabled, but I want to see if its worth it. Can I get all my regular channels over firewire or is it just the same digital (QAM-free, or something?) local channels I can get on my TV without the box...

[Bschneider]

Someone will have to confirm this but you should be able to get all the channels over firewire.

[DSquare]

You won't get an 8300HD with an enabled firewire port. They give you a non-dvr box if you want firewire.

[bdraw]

The only channels I was ever able to get in the clear with Firewire were the same ones you can get on clear QAM. This could change and it has been a few years since I tried it.

Now if you have a device like a DVHS deck that supports 5C, then you can get all of them, but there are no 5C devices for the PC.

[CapnBry]

I've been using MythTV+Firewire for at least a year now so I can answer any questions about it. I fought for a long time to get a box when they first became available, even writing a letter and finally getting a box with my name on it over in Brandon and having to go pick it up. It sucked back then, only getting local channels over firewire, and not all the time either.

The good news is that almost all channels are now available on the 1394 port. The channels that are not available are because they are analog. There is no copy protection in place. The SD channels are 528x480 interlaced mpeg2 with stereo AC3 sound. The HD channels are in full resolution with 5.1 sound when available. The stream is also padded with null PID packets to provide a constant firewire bitrate regardless of source.

Technically, you can't just hook up the box over firewire and start recording with MythTV. The problem being that there is no PID or PMT tables sent out the port, therefore Myth can't get a "signal lock". I have a patch which autocreates these packets based on the first video and auto streams seen. It also changes the delay of the channel changer which I found to be more reliable. patch is here (http://capnbry.net/~bmayland/fi/code/mythtv_scanavpids.diff)

The PACE-551 box they'll give you does not support power state query so mythtv also can not tell if the box is on. If it is not you'll get a 0 length file. I keep my box plugged into a UPS to make sure it can live through power fluctuations. The firewire port is also sometimes finicky if the power flickers, and will stop sending data, the only solution being to unplug the box power for a few minutes. The mpeg2 data is also often corrupted. On some channels you'll get corrupted sound and video like when you're getting a bad off the air ATSC signal. It looks fine if you watch directly from the box to a tv but the mpeg decoder in mythtv or mplayer spits out errors like crazy.

Mythtv also has some sort of bug where the playback doesn't for 10-15 seconds after getting a signal lock when entering LiveTV and changing channels. I haven't dug into it, I rarely watch LiveTV through myth.

All in all I like having it, but it is far from perfect and I often consider just getting the brighthouse PVR box.

[fly]

I've been using MythTV+Firewire for at least a year now so I can answer any questions about it. I fought for a long time to get a box when they first became available, even writing a letter and finally getting a box with my name on it over in Brandon and having to go pick it up. It sucked back then, only getting local channels over firewire, and not all the time either.

The good news is that almost all channels are now available on the 1394 port. The channels that are not available are because they are analog. There is no copy protection in place. The SD channels are 528x480 interlaced mpeg2 with stereo AC3 sound. The HD channels are in full resolution with 5.1 sound when available. The stream is also padded with null PID packets to provide a constant firewire bitrate regardless of source.

Technically, you can't just hook up the box over firewire and start recording with MythTV. The problem being that there is no PID or PMT tables sent out the port, therefore Myth can't get a "signal lock". I have a patch which autocreates these packets based on the first video and auto streams seen. It also changes the delay of the channel changer which I found to be more reliable. patch is here (http://capnbry.net/~bmayland/fi/code/mythtv_scanavpids.diff)

The PACE-551 box they'll give you does not support power state query so mythtv also can not tell if the box is on. If it is not you'll get a 0 length file. I keep my box plugged into a UPS to make sure it can live through power fluctuations. The firewire port is also sometimes finicky if the power flickers, and will stop sending data, the only solution being to unplug the box power for a few minutes. The mpeg2 data is also often corrupted. On some channels you'll get corrupted sound and video like when you're getting a bad off the air ATSC signal. It looks fine if you watch directly from the box to a tv but the mpeg decoder in mythtv or mplayer spits out errors like crazy.

Mythtv also has some sort of bug where the playback doesn't for 10-15 seconds after getting a signal lock when entering LiveTV and changing channels. I haven't dug into it, I rarely watch LiveTV through myth.

All in all I like having it, but it is far from perfect and I often consider just getting the brighthouse PVR box.
Well that's interesting. I wonder if they have any 'better' boxes with Firewire enabled. If I can get all the channels over Firewire, this is worth looking into!

[Tabitha]

But I'd warn you that boxes with this are still somewhat new technology and can be problematic.

[ispgeek]

Does anyone see any issue with using a 8300HD DVR with a cable card on the same TV?

To me it is just another input but I have been reading how some cable companies will disable the box if you have a card.

I'm not sure how they would know if I split the signal before reaching the stb and tv.

Just wondering.

There should be no problem with this...