Pace Software Update on 1/14/2004 - issues other than DVI

[MarkMSM]

The software update fixed a few issues I had with the Pace box.

Issue: Macrovision was enabled on the composite outputs for all HD signals.

Fix: This has been corrected. I can now record HD channels on my VCR via composite.

Issue: 4:3 Material on HD channels could be resized with Zoom or Stretch mode to fill a 16x9 screen with the Pace Box only. Both modes were nearly unwatchable for me.

Fix: Pressing the # key now toggles HD channels from HD to 480p. Once it's in 480p, I can use my TV's aspect ratio controls to stretch/zoom. This is great for 4:3 material on HD channels.

Only problem so far is that Fox looks weird last night and had black bars at the top and bottom. They could be elimiated by pressing the # key and zooming them away. This may be a broadcast issue.

Overall, I'm very happy with the update.

[DSquare]

I too had a funny pic with fox, the pic (4:3) was offecenter by about 2inches, fox was the only channel like this

[MTAS]

The software update fixed a few issues I had with the Pace box.

Issue: Macrovision was enabled on the composite outputs for all HD signals.

Fix: This has been corrected. I can now record HD channels on my VCR via composite.

Issue: 4:3 Material on HD channels could be resized with Zoom or Stretch mode to fill a 16x9 screen with the Pace Box only. Both modes were nearly unwatchable for me.

Fix: Pressing the # key now toggles HD channels from HD to 480p. Once it's in 480p, I can use my TV's aspect ratio controls to stretch/zoom. This is great for 4:3 material on HD channels.

Only problem so far is that Fox looks weird last night and had black bars at the top and bottom. They could be elimiated by pressing the # key and zooming them away. This may be a broadcast issue.

Overall, I'm very happy with the update.

Does the box need to be hard booted to see this change? I press the # key and it does what it always did - switches between normal, zoom and stretch...?

[sr1sws]

:x Arrrghh! Personally I'm unhappy with the 'patch'. I've had my HD Mits about 3 weeks. Sound Avice installer recommended setting Pace box to 480i as the HDTV's 480i normal mode scaled the picture nicely to full screen. He showed me the display with the Pace box set to 1080i and the 480i output appeared better to me. When tuned to an HD channel, the Pace box apparently passed through the 1080i signal. I was a happy camper.

Post-patch and several calls to BHN, I'm not so happy. With the box still set to 480i, SD channels have black pillar bars left and right. Tuning to an HD channel output 480i. Right now I'm trying to decide if I'm happier with the box in 1080i mode or PASS and using the 'stretch' mode of the box to make it full screen.

Anyone else see this kind of problem? Was I benefiting from an undocumented feature before the fix? NOBODY at BHN can believe I was running the box at 480i and getting 1080i when tuned to HD.

Thoughts, suggestions or accusations?

TIA,
Steve

[bdraw]

:x Arrrghh! Personally I'm unhappy with the 'patch'. I've had my HD Mits about 3 weeks. Sound Avice installer recommended setting Pace box to 480i as the HDTV's 480i normal mode scaled the picture nicely to full screen. He showed me the display with the Pace box set to 1080i and the 480i output appeared better to me. When tuned to an HD channel, the Pace box apparently passed through the 1080i signal. I was a happy camper.

Post-patch and several calls to BHN, I'm not so happy. With the box still set to 480i, SD channels have black pillar bars left and right. Tuning to an HD channel output 480i. Right now I'm trying to decide if I'm happier with the box in 1080i mode or PASS and using the 'stretch' mode of the box to make it full screen.

Anyone else see this kind of problem? Was I benefiting from an undocumented feature before the fix? NOBODY at BHN can believe I was running the box at 480i and getting 1080i when tuned to HD.


I have always had my box set to 1080i so I never noticed. But I think the real problem is the extra bars that the box is outputing. Basicly they need send out 4x3 as 4x3 and 16x9 as 16x9, right now if you have it set to 16x9 it outputs the 4x3 as 16x9. I can understand their logic but this does not work well.

Personally I leave mine on 1080i, because I only watch HD material, but if I did watch alot of SD, I would be irritated because on pass my TV takes a second to adjust when the resolution is changed.

If I were you I would simply tell BHN, and maybe Pace that extra bars added into the picture when the pace box is set to 16x9 is not a good thing, and explain to them why. I cannot think of any reason why anyone would want this.

I don't know if this is usefull at all since I would assume if you sent a 4x3 tv a HD 16x9 image that it would add the bars, so this feature in the pace box seems useless. But I am not sure since my tv is 16x9 I can't try it.

What they really need is more choices. If you set your tv to pass and then turn on a 720p channel and your tv doesn't support it you loose the picture. It would be nice if you could tell it to pass all HD material as 1080i and all non hd material as 480i.

The real problem is that if you set your TV to 16x9 and pass, you get bars on 16x9 material. This is obviously wrong.

Lets home we get another release soon.

[bubblehd647]

Man, you're right. This patch really sucks. It looks like they are setting everything to 16x9 even on 480i. Now the scaler on my Mits doesn't even work if I set the box to 480i.

I normally keep my Pace box set to 1080i for component output and use S-Video for SD channels. I just wish the guide worked on that output on channels <100.

[FTBoomerIII]

I just accidentally found out something interesting while playing with the Pace menu. With the TV muted and the pace resolution set to 1080i, no closed-captioning, swith the pace over to 480i and I get the CC on the screen.

So what seems to be the general consensus? Set the Pace to 480i or 1080i or Pass,

[sr1sws]

:P Well I'm glad that at least some others see and understand what I'm talking about. BHN seems to be in "duh?" mode over this.

I hadn't thought about hooking up the S-video output use with SD, I think I'll give that a whirl. Easy enough to swap inputs on the TV and I think the TV's scaler is better than the Pace box, but I guess I'll be able to more directly compare after the hookup.

Anyone have suggestions for further raising of Cain with BHN and possibly Pace? Actually I see Pace has a 'customer support' email address - of course they're probably more expecting BHN to contact them than me/us. But I'll certainly fire off a nastygram to them. Others can do the same - here's the address: CustomerSupport@Pacemicro.com

Anyone think Tampa BHN monitors this board?

Thanks to all for confirming I AM still sane!

Steve

[CANDY76MAN]

the pace box has no svideo output.

[sr1sws]

:?: Sure it does... the DC-550 has component, s-video and composite outputs.

Regarding comparison of SD 480i output on s-video to stretched 1080i output on component: I'm not sure the s-video image is any better. I played with this some and asked my daughter's opinion and we were un-certain.

I did write an email to Pace regarding the patch. Too early to have gotten a reply.

Steve

[ckirksey]

Not sure if I have the patch you guys are discussing but here is how I have my system setup. I have a Sony kv40xbr800. I set the Pace to Pass mode and use the component inputs to the TV. For an SD signal the Pace converts it to 480p which then means my TV cannot use its internal upconversion to 1080i. I hit the # key to zoom. (BTW where is it given that this key does this?? I read it on this forum otherwise I would be ignorant.) Have not compared using svideo out of Pace and TV internal scaling. I was hoping to avoid this because of all the switching required with the SA3250hd STB. I was hoping the Pace STB would pass the 480i SD out as 480i in the pass mode. But not so. I have read references to Pace menu access from the remote can someone fill me in?? Thanks.

After though. Zooming an HD signal coverts to 4:3 480p. This is a nice feature if the SOF (Significant Other Factor) comes into play. I want a full sized picture!!!

[sr1sws]

:? Interesting. From what BHN told me, if you're on Tampa's BHN then you should have the patch.

I believe them. As part of my trouble-shooting, I swapped my initial DC-550 for an apparently "virgin" box (didn't have the patch). Hooked it up and yipee, it worked like the orignal... for about 5 minutes. Then the box shut down, flashed a series of numbers on the display, then dashes, then blank and then, finally, the time of day (this took several minutes). I figured this process was the patch being applied and sure enough, after the process the 550 was "broken".

I've heard/read a couple of times that hitting the # button on the remote with the 550 set to 1080i causes it to switch to 480p. That doesn't happen on mine... so maybe there are different revisions of the box???

Mine's a DC550P manufactured in August 2003 according to the label. Here are the results of me testing each mode on the 550 and what my Mits WS65413 reports. No format changes were made on the Mits:

STB -- SD -- Remarks ------------------ HD -- Remarks

480i -- 480i -- black pillars ---------- 480i full screen
480p -- 480p -- black pillars -------- 480p full screen
720p -- TV not capable of this mode
1080i -- 1080i -- black pillars ------- 1080i full screen HD
PASS -- 480i -- black pillars --------- 1080i full screen HD
-------------------------------------------ABC HD won't display

On all of the above the # key on the remote cycles through normal, stretch and zoom.

That's my two cents for now. Sorry for the crappy formatting. My HTML is too rusty.
Steve

[tolmba]

The Pace box is probably adding black bars to analog and SD content for 16X9 TVs because that would be a faithful presentation of the material and would preserve the materials 4x3 aspect on a 16x9 TV.

16x9 TVs all handle 480i content differently. Some 16x9 TVs will automatically add 'pillar bars' while others rely on the set-top to insert the bars. So, most likely, Pace cannot assume that your TV is adding in the 'pillar bars'. The TVs in question almost always have a menu setting for 480i content that allows you to choose a 'Full' setting which will only show the Pace 'pillar bars' and not insert TV pillar bars; thus presenting the 4x3 content as 4x3.

Of course when your TV detects the 1080i signal it will not add the additional pillar bars no matter what mode it is set in. :idea:

[sr1sws]

Agreed - the Pace box is inserting the black pillar bars - which is precisely what I find very annoying. Seriously, is there a 16:9 HDTV made that can't insert it's own pillar bars (probably in grey, not black) if someone wants to view 4:3 material in its native aspect ratio?

Oh well - my complaints seem to have fallen on deaf ears at both BHN and Pace. At least no reply from Pace as of this writing. I'm convinced that BHN thinks I'm insane.

I REALLY preferred the way the box worked pre-patch(es) - set box to 480i and it output 480i SD signals w/o pillar bars. Tune to HD station and it output 1080i (and yes, my HDTV does take a couple of seconds to switch modes).

I could maybe be satisified with PASS mode if it didn't also add black pillars to the 4:3 SD output (not exactly passthru, is it) - of course I'd have to reset the Pace box to 1080i to view ABC HD, but that's not my prime target for viewing.

One other observation on the PACE box, when enabled for BYPASS operation, the manual states that 480i input from the component passthru is upconverted to 480p. This doesn't happen on mine, pre- or post-patch. Anyone have a comment on this item?

Steve

[tolmba]

sr1sws-
Couldn't you use the box's 'Stretch' feature on SD content to eliminate the Pace vertical bars? And, yes, my Toshiba 16*9 CRT does not have an option for automatically adding vertical bars so I must rely on the box to properly format the 480i content for 4*3 aspect viewing.

I think you get it, but some people still don't realize that the settings in their 16x9 TVs can eliminate the dreaded double vertical bars (squished content) scenario.

Thoughts?

[sr1sws]

Absolutely, the TV has quite a few modes for stretching, squishing and expanding a 480i signal. However the set is expecting a 4:3 output without it being 'padded' with pillar bars. Therefore none of the TVs expand features eliminate the bars w/o truncating portions of the picture or leaving some remaining black bars. Best compromise I've found so far is to set the Pace to 1080i and use the Pace's 1080i expand mode - that *almost* does it right (still some truncation).

Of course if they just "fixed" (in my terms) the pillar bars on 480i I still wouldn't be happy - because they also took away the ability of the Pace box to automatically switch to 1080i output when tuned to an HD channel.

In short - I liked the way the Pace box operated before patches much better than aftwards.

Thanks for your input. It does get complicated when dealing with different resolutions and the ability to scale the output in two different places.

Steve

[sr1sws]

Woo-hoo, happy days are here again.

I was reading in another thread about setting the aspect ratio to 4:3 in the Pace box.

I gave it a try and SD broadcasts are now full screen, output is 480p. HD stations are full screen and 1080i. Use of the # key on the remote switches between 480p and 1080i (go figure). Pace is set for 1080i output.

So, for the moment I'm happy. I don't know if this will persist across a power cycle of the Pace box or not.

Personally, I think this is weird. Why would you set the aspect ratio to 4:3 for a widescreen set?

I'm gone...
Steve

[FTBoomerIII]

OK try this:


Set the Pace Box to PASS & 4:3.

In SD pressing it will switch to wide screen (Normal)

In HD (not ABC) pressing the # on the remote switches between 1080i & 420p

On ABC (628) pressing # still switches between 480p & 1080i, but it synchs up on 480p. So on a non-HD broadcast, ABC is now watchable without going into the menu.


*edit* Hey, my 100th post....finally. :wink:

[tscharf2]

Well on my Sony 30XBR910 I made the following observations (pre-patch):

I compared the SD scaling ability of the analog channels (<100) of both the PACE and the Sony (the Sony had direct cable connection as well). The Sony's internal DRC scaler was visibly better than any mode the PACE could be set to.

I do not think I ever got 480i output from the PACE as switching between 480i and 480p on the pace showed no difference on the TV. It looked like I was always getting 480p from the PACE.

I should note that the only way to know what mode the Sony is actually set to internally is to enter the service menu's as it is never displayed.

SD digital cable looked fine, SA analog looked pretty bad from the PACE and only marginal with the Sony scaler. However in side by side testing against my old analog TV, analog cable looks to be simply a bad signal, and my HDTV just clearly shows how bad it is.

As I remember, pressing and holding the # key brings up the Pace menu.

My DVI is dead since the update. When I compared outputs of the DVI and the component outputs in HD before the patch, I was hard pressed to tell the difference. All things being equal, I'd prefer the digital connection.

[ckirksey]

tscharf2
What do you think the Sony XBR is doing with the 480p input signal from the Pace? It is not real clear how the DRC functions on this input format. My understanding (no hard facts just reading between the lines) is that the 480p format is accepted unscaled.

It appears that the Pace will always output a 480p signal for an SD on the component output.

Is DVI not working?

[tscharf2]

According to the Sony specs, it handles 480p and 1080i natively and upconverts 720p to 1080i, The SD 480i is put through the DRC scaler and upconverted to 1080i.

So I think the Sony just shows exactly what the PACE puts out at 480p.

It is unknown whether the Sony would scale 480i over component anyway, it may only work with the internal tuner.

My DVI died when they did the HDCP upgrade a week or so ago. The DVI was working fine before this.

[Harry]

I have noticed on both my HD sets (a Mits rear projection and a Panasonic tube) that after the update, any 4x3 stuff on an HD channel is poorly centered. It used to be close to the middle but now it is off to one side. Not quite sure why but it is ugly looking. I am waiting/hoping for the HD DVR so I may not do anything about the problem at the moment.

Harry

[ckirksey]

tscharf2
For a 480i component input the Sony should scale to 1080i. Just think of a non progressive DVD output. But again I have hard facts to back this up. It could covert to 480p but a believe this should be contolled by the DRC mode selected: interlace, progressive or cinema

[jaymer]

thread closed - new pace update available