BHN DVI Issue w/ PACE box

[mrmoi]

Did BHN just change the DVI output last night? Because now when the box starts (after unplugging) it says my TV doesn't support HDCP DVI, which I have been using fine for the past three months.

It looks like they have begun to use HDCP encryption!!! Have they always?

I have the PACE box and a Samsung DLP which are both supposed to be HDCP compliant. Could it be the cable from the box to the TV.

[patters000]

mrmoi,

Having the exact same problems as you too. Actually, the DVI worked for about 20-30 sec today after I examined it after checking this thread. I had the TV on DVI, and was browsing channels. Left it on CBS's Cold Case for 10 sec, and switched to component, and was greeted with the same message you posted. I'm not sure what triggered it; the switch to component or just some arbitrary delay. Now the Pace doesn't output ANY DVI at all, including non-HD channels. Are you experiencing the same thing? Tried the different menu settings to no avail.

Samsung HLN DLP here, FYI.

Thanks!

[mrmoi]

Yep, exact same problems.

[Max_Gator]

Uh oh. I'll have to check my dlp when I get home. I use DVI also.

[millerman101]

Guys, they shut if off , I found out this morning...

[patters000]

millerman,

Do you mean you contacted BHN and they have intentionally disable DVI? Is this more of a Samsung+Pace issue (Pace not seeing Samsung's HDCP ability), or are all the Pace boxes have their DVI disabled?

[Max_Gator]

I'm on the phone with BHN right now trying to find out if they just disabled ALL of the DVI ports or merely activated the HDCP.

Ok. The tech I spoke to allegedly verified that ALL DVI ports WERE NOT disabled. She was told by someone allegedly in the know that there may be incompatibility between the HDCP used by BHN on the Pace Box and that used by Samsung.

Could this be correct?

Why in the hell have a standard if it is not standard?

I still have not verified that I am not getting a picture via DVI.

[dales95]

I've got a Sony, my DVI port doesn't work anymore either. It has worked fine until last night. It's a good thing I had a spare component cable handy and I wasn't out of town. I never could have explained how to change the inputs to my wife over the phone. BH should give some warning when they do things like this.

Anyway, the problem's not exclusive to Samsung.

[CANDY76MAN]

I'm on the phone with BHN right now trying to find out if they just disabled ALL of the DVI ports or merely activated the HDCP.

Ok. The tech I spoke to allegedly verified that ALL DVI ports WERE NOT disabled. She was told by someone allegedly in the know that there may be incompatibility between the HDCP used by BHN on the Pace Box and that used by Samsung.

Could this be correct?

Why in the hell have a standard if it is not standard?

I still have not verified that I am not getting a picture via DVI.

well...the DVI still works with my RCA so they deffinantly didn't disable the DVI.

[millerman101]

patters, i work for them as a tech, and yes it was shut until further notice..thats all I got from them..will try to find out more..

[MTAS]

No problems between the Pace DVI output and my Philips 55PW6393. I just checked it and all is well with the channels above 610....except that 644, 638 and 607 aren't working dammit! :roll:

[gmclaughlin]

The latest software update enabled HDCP -- and shut the DVI port off for those whose displays don't support HDCP. If the display doesn't support HDCP, the set should display a message saying "the device doesn't support HDCP -- use the component outputs instead".

Unfortunately, we're finding that those devices that support HDCP do so in somewhat random fashions -- it works on some types of TV's, but others seem to not function (but not display the component input message). It's something Pace and other set top manufacturers are encountering and will be working to fix.

If you are having one of these incompatibilities, post a message here with your TV type (model number) and I'll pass it forward. If your TV is functioning, post that too, because it will help us further isolate the problem.

[dales95]

The message displayed saying to switch to componet, but my documentation says it supports HDCP on the DVI port. The TV's only 2 months old and is a new model

Sony Grand WEGA III KF50WE610

[CANDY76MAN]

well...for once RCA did something right I guess...lol...it hasn't given me any problems with the DVI input yet.

[mrmoi]

Samsung HLN507 not working.

[Max_Gator]

My Sammy HLN4365 IS working.

Thanks for clearing that up gmclaughlin - I apparently managed to get correct info!!

By the way, I tried to get them to let me test the HD DVR - but only for employees. Thought I had a shot since I educated whoever I talked to about DVI and HDTV enough to get him to find the correct answer!

I understand that the HD DVR boxes may be available in the next couple of weeks.

Hint - if they really want to work out the bugs - why not have a group of us HD owners from this site included in the test?

[superbigg]

My Sammy HLN4365 IS working.

Thanks for clearing that up gmclaughlin - I apparently managed to get correct info!!

How did you get it working??

I also have a Sammy ( well mine is HLN5065)

Thx

Super

[mrmoi]

Received this reply from PACE support today:

Yes there are some issues with Samsung DVI-HDCP HDTVs. Pace has been working
with Samsung to resolve these issues. We are close to resolving this issue,
but need to test further. Hope is to have a software fix available next
month.
Regards,
Pace Customer Support

[patters000]

HLN567W is not working -- though it was strange b/c the message only appeared when I switched to component. Again, not sure if it was a coincidence, but I'm curious if when switching from DVI to component on the TV, that somehow it 'turns off' HDCP support on DVI, thereby triggering the Pace box to pop up that message?

[Max_Gator]

Now my HLN4365 IS NOT working.

For some reason, it worked until yesterday. Perhaps they didn't activate HDCP at my place (Westchase) until later than others. It was working Thurs night.

[Chris_The_Rock]

I must be having a variation on the same problem. I've got a Samsung DLP and what's been happening to me is that the DVI shows me absoulutely nothing. My TV says "no signal". It does this in a couple of situations:
1. When I turn the TV and Cable Box on after not using it for a while.
2. When I switch the TV back to DVI after not using it for a while.

I have gotten the "your display doesn't support HDCP" error message, but only for a second once.

I've also had this weird experience: I turned my TV and cable box on this morning, and on the HD stations, the middle of the picture (the 4 X 3 section was black, but I saw image in the pillars on the side). All non HD stations were completely black.

By the way, I can get the DVI to work one of two ways: Unplugging the box and plugging it back in, or removing the DVI cable from the Pace box and plugging it back in.

Now, I'll get back to reading these threads so I can figure out how this is gonna get fixed!

[FTBoomerIII]

I've also had this weird experience: I turned my TV and cable box on this morning, and on the HD stations, the middle of the picture (the 4 X 3 section was black, but I saw image in the pillars on the side). All non HD stations were completely black.



I had the same problem, It was wierd. I had to re-boot the pace box to fix it.

[mrmoi]

Hey, my DVI works. I unplugged the DVI cable from the PACE box and plugged it back in while everything was on and Voila! It came back on.

[nealchck]

OK, after 3 months my Pace box just started this problem. If I shut the TV (Sammy DLP) off or change input signal, and then go back to DVI input, I get the dreaded "your DVI is not HDCP enabled message, please use component input".

Any thoughts?

[Janga]

I have a Sammy too...I've found that when you turn the Pace box off or switch to composite or what have you - when you go back to DVI you get no picture. All I do is disconnect the cable and plug it back in and that does the trick. Doesn't matter if you unplug from the set or the box.

[fatologist]

I am experiencing the same problem.

Panasonic PT-50LC13

[nealchck]

I just got off the phone with BHN. First a customer service rep (I've been instructed to tell you the DVI port has been turned off and I will have tech support call you).

The tech rep who called me back was very good and informative. This problem is caused by Pace in court over HDCP. It wad introduced by the software upgrade by BHN in early-to-mid Jan. Not sure of resolution, but I've seen Feb as target date based on feedback from Pace.

Said I (we) found a workaround to the disabled DVI port in unpluuging the box and rebooting.

Directed me to scan resolutions via # key and thought I should check out component at 1080i.....thought it was as good or better than DVI input....found my box was set for 480p input. Will evaluate DVI vs. component 1080i picture tonight.

Discussed new HD recorder box. As an employee, he is Beta testing and it has a DVI output port with 120Mg hard drive. Should be available to consumers in 2-3 months.

[amheck]

120Mg

Dang, I was hoping for at least a gig.

Aaron

[millerman101]

Neal, I im beta testing right now, no such luck enabling the DVI port on it as of yet. I dont think its active as my Pace box DVI is working..

[CANDY76MAN]

I don't think they disabled the DVI port folks...if they did they must have missed mine cause it works just fine.

[Whitey]

Samsung hln 61, DVI has worked great until this morning. now nothing. There is no doubt with this specific tv that DVI is far better than component. If they cannot fix this soon I will be forced to switch, again. Good thing I left the old DTV dish up.

David

[millerman101]

Its up to PACE TO fix the software issue,not BHN...

[bdraw]

Its up to PACE TO fix the software issue,not BHN...

Why can't BHN push the old version out?
Or atleast quit pushing it out now, so someone can swap out their pace box with a new one(non updated) and not have to worry about the update taking effect again?

[millerman101]

IM sure they can roll back the update...but probably not to just please a few people im sure...

[jaymer]

Whitey,
Superbigg calls me on the phone the other day distraught with the fact that DVI doesn't work... uhh, ok, so what. Its not the end of the world. Just hook up 3 little component wires for the time being and go back to watching TV (the way he was doing it before I went over to his house) - whats the big deal?

So if your TV had THAT big of a difference that you cannot stand to watch BHN via component and you are going back to a dish, then I gotta see it!
-------------------------------------------

The technical issues with the black bars/stretching etc. are one thing, but this DVI deal is really minor over the short term... unless you've run out of component inputs on the TV or something... if not, just go back to component.

[nealchck]

Jaymer,

the problem is the way BHN treats it's customers. I spent a good 8 hours last weekend trying to troubleshoot this problem (would never had figured it out w/o this forum). I also spent money building my home theater around DVI input (incuding $200 for a DVI switching box).

And then BHN does this without any communication to it's best customers. I have been a cable\RR customer for 10 years and I'm looking elsewhere.

-Chuck

[bdraw]

the problem is the way BHN treats it's customers. I spent a good 8 hours last weekend trying to troubleshoot this problem (would never had figured it out w/o this forum). I also spent money building my home theater around DVI input (incuding $200 for a DVI switching box).

And then BHN does this without any communication to it's best customers. I have been a cable\RR customer for 10 years and I'm looking elsewhere.


I understand your point.
I am not sure that BHN is to blame. We are BHN's customer and BHN is Pace's customer. I would bet that BHN didn't even know the details of the update themsevles. It might of also been a requirement for them to send out the update in order to enable HDCP. Most cable companies around the coutry just disabled the DVI port all together. So we should feel lucky that you can even use it before the HDCP was enabled. Unfortunatly for everyone there is a problem. This stuff happens, it is not just here in Tampa. Go over to avsforum.com to the hardware section there is a thread for the pace box, and this happend on other systems that use the Pace box as well.
I don't see how noteifing you about the update would have helped, obviously no one tested the update with Samsung TV's even if they would have told you the update was coming there is still a good chance that you would of still spent the time troubleshooting.

You can look else where, in fact I think you should. But you should know that both Dish companies push updates to STB's connected to their system, and they don't even own the Box, you have to buy it! You can cancel your service, but if you leave your box pluged in and connected to the dish pointed at the Satellite, and they will still update your box, with neither a warning or permission.

But once again BHN has shown it's weekest point is it's CS department. Most of those people don't have a clue. There is one guy there I talk to that is worth his salt, and I would bet he is the one that posts here.

[tscharf2]

Sony 30XBR910 - Not working

Sometimes get the HDCP message, sometimes I don't. By unplugging the PACE box I was able to get it to work the first time TV was turned on, it would not work after this, however.

My wife reports that she sometimes got it to come on by "pushing a lot of buttons" repeatedly. So it looks like it is intermittently working, mostly not though.

The PACE box appears to check the HDCP flag anytime the DVI video is enabled on the Sony side. If it works at the start, you can watch forever, until you switch video inputs or cycle power.

Looks like BH has to enable HDCP BEFORE they roll out the HD-DVR to customers. The only way PACE can work out the new HDCP firmware is to release it to us "beta-testers" (I think they might have tested a Sony HDTV before they released the software though...).

For the record, BH support told me that the "providers had forced BH to disable DVI and they could do nothing about it". Not exactly correct. It would be nice if BH had accurate information available easily, the internet, perhaps?

Early adopters always pay.

www.pacemicro.com has instructed BH to disable the DVI......I was told that we can use the Red, Green,Blue (Out) to avoid unpluging the Box....

Lou

[Whitey]

"So if your TV had THAT big of a difference that you cannot stand to watch BHN via component and you are going back to a dish, then I gotta see it! "

Jaymer,

I have spent a bit of time tweaking this set, for both component and DVI inputs. The DVI picture quality for HD or SD viewing is clearer, better color reproduction, much better dark or shadow detail. Just one of those things were once you know what it is capable of you never want to settle for less.

As far as the debate over BHN customer service goes, I am quickly becoming frustrated with the ineptitude of their service people. I was on the phone yesterday with a service rep, explaining my problem repeatedly, and being told over and over that I was wrong because she has never heard of the DVI input and therefore it doesn't exist. I requested to speak to a technician, and was informed they would call me within an hour. 5 hours later I called back, again I was told they would call me within an hour. I still have not had a response today, now 31 hrs. later. I spend a $@#%load of money every month with this company, and this is how they treat there customers. Ahhh the luxury of having a monopoly on the cable market.

David

[jaymer]

hi David and thx for the reply.
I totally agree about those improvements you've seen - its exactly what i first noticed at Superbiggs house on his new Samsung DLP.
Yes, if I'd invested in the DVI switcher I'd be ticked off too, but it will get better. Only point I was trying to make it that in the "short term", we can all afford to watch HD using regular component and not lose a whole lot... its not like we have to go back to non-HD.

...which I had to do over a year ago when my HTPC card went out and I was HD-less for about 3 weeks... we should be thankful that in a renting situation (like with the BHN box) we can get it replaced SAME DAY (if you made the drive) if something was to break on it. Just try that with your extended svc contract at BB/Circuit City and you'll be waiting 10days or so. Losing a major component is one big headache to deal with.

-----------------
BHN Service

Well, ok, someone should always call you back... but thankfully, this site has helped a few folk realize what has gone wrong, etc. And no sense in calling BHN because they have training issues, etc. that we've seen before w.r.t. getting current info out to EVERY CSR that might answer the phone. Everyone calling them isn't going to make this go away quicker or change. Again, if the box was totally down and such, then yes, i'd be really angry... but all is not lost.

If you think back a year or so, this HDCP stuff was always going to be tricky, with "them" being able to disable features in the box at will. Now we've finally hit the first major snag in this system... hopefully it will help the future system work better now that so many people across the country have this negative experience with the HDCP controls.

[ShaneK]

Has anyone had any luck getting the DVI to work by changing output resolutions (hold down # button till menu screen comes up)? I am an A/V installer in Clearwater and I know of two setups not working with DVI and one that is working. The two that are not working are Runco CL-510 DLP front projector and Fujitsu P42VHA2OUS plasma displays. The one that is still working is a Panasonic TH-42PA2OU. I do not remember which output resolution is being used for the Runco & Fujitsu but I do know that I had a very weird looking picture over the DVI to the Panasonic. It looked like the colors were mis-aligned, sparkles, noisy, etc. until I changed the output resolution to 480p, then everything looked great. I couldn't check the 720p output because the Panasonic is a EDTV plasma and it only accepts 480p & 1080i over the DVI.

To tell my side of the story: Last Thursday, while at a customers house, the DVI went out. After a call to TimeWarner/BrighHouse tech support, I was informed that the DVI was turned off (he also said that the S-Video port was shut down??? ... whatever that was supposed to mean) and that it was mandated from above. Monday I spoke with a local contact in the main TimeWarner/BrightHouse office (much higher up on the food chain) and he told me that the DVI output was never shut down. HDCP copy protection was turned on (last Wednesday between 1-4 a.m.) He then told me all kinds of TVs that were & weren't working - according to them. He did mention the Samsung HLN series but I see above that there are ones working and not working.

DirecTV has had their HDCP going for a while now (as far as I know). Nobody with DVI hooked up to their HD satellite receivers has called me to say that their picture went out. I know of one in particular that has the Samsung 43" RP DLP.

[jaymer]

shane,
nice to have you with us.

[rowlanja]

My Samsung HLN437W is working but I've had a problem similar to Chris (the) Rock. After watching a DVD and switching back to DVI to watch BH, I would have to reboot the Pace box. I never got a message about HDCP, just a "no signal" message.

Jim

[Max_Gator]

Geez, how many times is someone going to post "DVI was turned off?" Reading comprehension anyone?

The problem is not one that BHN has created. It is one that their vendor Pace has created and one that was created by the implementation of new technology. I'm somewhat amazed that there is no apparent standard for HDCP - that's the real issue.

As Pace indicated, they expect to have a fix within a month for the Sammy incompatibility problem. I can live with component for that month but I'm not particularly happy. Jaymer said it best - this is what you get for being an early adopter.

[rowlanja]

Max,

Earlier in the thread, gmclaughlin asked that people post what TV they had connected to a Pace STB via DVI, and whether or not they had problems. He wanted to gather info on what sets had problems to pass on to Pace. That would seem to be a good reason for people to post "DVI not working" messages. Perhaps reading comprehension is not the problem, but Evelyn Wood forum speed-reading.

Jim

[tscharf2]

Well the latest on the Sony 30XBR910 is this:

I can make my system work by unplugging my DVI cable, then cycling power on the PACE (not rebooting), and then plugging in the DVI cable "hot". This seems to work fine. If I power on the Sony while the PACE is already on, it fails. It can't seem to handle the TV on sequence (I think it probably tries to check HDCP functionality too fast after the TV is on).

Also this morning I had a bizarre problem in which the PACE had blacked out the center of the screen. Strangely enough the center 4:3 SD area of the screen was black, and the sidebars were totally functional. Rebooting the PACE made this problem go away.

[Icarus]

ok, this explains a lot to me.

When I was in traveling in SF Bay area, wife tells me Samsung 4355W is no longer "getting a picture". I'm thinking "bad bulb assembly". I get home, and see the tv has a picture, it's just displaying "DVI - No signal" on a blue screen. OK, set is ok. What's wrong with the signal? I rip out the Belkin DVI computer switch I have, and after reseating the dvi cable into the tv a couple of times, it's all just working fine. I have a Gefen 4x1 switch here (still in the box) that is supposed to be HDCP compliant. Will test it out soon. Had I checked this board, I would have known what was going on.

Then we moved to the house next door this weekend, need installer to wire in roadrunner in the office, and check/repair the existing wire. Samsung won't get a DVI signal, till I remove and reseat the DVI connector in the back of the tv once or twice. It's been fine since then. Today, service guy shows up (weak signals on some of the outlets prevent some channels from being decoded and displayed in the bedroom) and he's amazed that the DVI output is working and not turned off. He says that he thought the DVI output was disabled.

So, even BHN service folks don't know what's going on. That's bad.

Bottom line, if you have a problem and you think your monitor is HDCP compliant, try reseating the cables. Not sure if that will help you or not, but it solved my problem.

-David


PS: Jaymer: I would switch to DirecTV if BHN was unable to resove the DVI problem. Component just doesn't cut it with my setup.

[Larry_C]

Hi!
This is my first time in this forum and just notice it today. I had my Pace box since July and it was working find until around January 15,2004.
I'm in the Tampabay Brighthouse cable system. I have the DVI cable hook
up to my Dwin Transvision 3 Projector which has HDCP connection. Now I
cann"t get DVI, until I pull the DVI cable off and reconnect it again, than
I get the DVI the rest of the night, until I shut it off or change imputs. I
have too pull and reattach the DVI again, each day, I want to see it. I also get that message, occasionally but not all the time which was described in other replies. I was told by BHC that the DVI was deactivated because of :( problems, What Problems ?, until now!.

[millerman101]

Larry, it wasnt deactivated, they loaded new software from Pace into there box enabling HDCP for copy protection for the DVI port. But also creating compatiblity problems with some TV's. Mine also works just like yours and have a Sony set. I think they might be sending down a new update from PACE soon hopefully to correct that problem.. Hopefully Pace has addressed some of the problems with the last update. Hope this helps..

[Icarus]

Due to WAF, I switched over to component out for the pace box, and left the Bravo D1 on the DVI input on my HLN4365. Not sure if I'm going to leave it this way, but I'm setting it up this way at least while I'm away from home traveling.

I hope this issue is resolved soon. The picture is good, but not as good as DVI.

It seems to me that if there's a dvi cable connected to the pace box when it powers up, and the monitor does not respond when the box powers up (or you later switch the monitor away from the pace box, through a switch or whatever, but the dvi cable is still connected to the pace box) then the pace box disables dvi out for good until you power cycle the box. I have no problem with it disabling the output, but it should preiodically check the dvi output to see if an hdcp compliant display device appears later (even without cable removal) and re-enable the output if it does. Is that so hard to do? This would solve the problem, IMO.

-David

[Icarus]

I read the HDCP specs and I'm convinced that the PACE box is non-compliant with the spec. In the worst case, removing and re-inserting the cable should be enough to get the dvi output to work for v1.0 of the hdcp protocol, but the PACE box completely disables the dvi output port in certain cases, and it should not ever be doing that. In the best of possible choices, the Pace box would have an implementation of v1.1 of the hdcp protocol and in the worst case it would enable hd transmission after a 2-second delay when the dvi receiver becomes available.

I posted my analysis in Arun's DVI thread on AVS forum.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3365942#post3365942

-David

[jaymer]

thread closed - new pace update available