Just say no to Multicasting. NBC related

[bdraw]

I propose that everyone in the Tampa/St Petersburg area, email our local stations and let them know how we feel about multicasting.

Some people at the local stations have been know to make comments about their 1 HDTV viewer. If we all email them they may realize that there are alot of us out here, and we don't want to deal with the compresion caused by multicasting that is so evident on PBS-HD.
They think they can make more money by multicasting. It is even what is preventing us from having NBC on BHN. (BHN doesn't want to carry the sub channels)

We are actually very lucky that we have so many stations broadcasting HDTV, and even luckier that only PBS multicasts.

So lets let them all know how we feel.

First we need email address maybe Brian, or someone else knowes the best place to send these emails. To the General manger, new desk, sales marketing? Who is the best person to send this to, what is their email?

Also we need to be consistant with our message but at the same time not have a verbatim message. What do we want to say?

Some ideas to get us started.
WFLA --NBC
Thanks for broadcasting HDTV, News has good PQ, Thanks for not multicasting, please don't start. Please allow carriage on BHN, without forceing them to carry sub-channels.

WTSP --CBS
Thanks for Broadcasting HDTV, thanks for adding DD5.1, Thanks for not multicasting, please don't start. Thanks for carraige on BHN.

WTTA --WB
Looking forward to HDTV, Thanks for not multicasting, please don't start. Please allow carriage on BHN, without forceing them to carry sub-channels.

WUSF --PBS16
Looking forward to HDTV, Please don't multicasting. Please allow carriage on BHN, without forcing them to carry sub-channels.

WTVT --FOX
Thanks for EDTV, looking forward to Fox HDTV. Thanks for not multicasting, please don't start.

WFTS --ABC28
Thanks for Broadcasting HDTV, thanks for adding DD5.1, Thanks for not multicasting, please don't start. Thanks for carriage on BHN.

WTOG --UPN
Thanks for Broadcasting HDTV, Thanks for not multicasting, please don't start. Please allow carriage on BHN, without forcing them to carry sub-channels.

WEDU --PBS3
Thanks for Broadcasting HDTV, Thanks for allowing carraige on BHN, please stop multicasting.

Ok We need some email addresses and some more ideas on what our concerns are.

Please keep it POSITIVE!

It would be great if each station could get >100 emails about this topic, it may help, but if we keep it positive it should hurt.

[FTBoomerIII]

I like it bdraw, come on guys, I know that we have these addresses. I'm in.

[CANDY76MAN]

Lets threaten violence if they start multicasting at the expense of HD?



lol :lol:

but thats really how much it would tick me off :evil:

[Harry]

You get the address here and I will add my email also.

Thanks,
Harry

[teampozer]

If you guys think a few emails are gonna change what they want to do you're fooling yourselves. Decisions like that are made lots of times at the corporate level. Plus, with weather such a hot news item during the summer months, you know some of these weather guys are just itching to get their own "radar or breaking news channel" so to speak. Mark my words.... as soon as 8 does it, so will 10, 13, and 28. No one will wanna be left outta that game. Don't take this the wrong way.... I agree with your intent and sending a message can't hurt. But the corporate enviroment that broadcasters operate in today is not always in the viewers or listeners best interests.

[Bschneider]

My contacts at each station already knows how everyone feels about multicasting. There is no point in emailing them about it. CBS stopped multicasting a long time ago and so did NBC. ABC has no plans to do it either. In fact the only station that does and plans to do multicasting is PBS.

And there is no point in trying to talk either PBS stations from not multicasting. If they don't multicast then they lose their funding and hence we will ultimately lose as a viewer.

[Floyd]

Maybe it's just my system, but alot of the stuff on 3-5 still looks as good as the stuff on the other uncompressed channels. I only get a bit of moziac when the action is complex and dynamic, otherwise the resolution is great. With multi-casting, does the resolution ceiling come down, or does it just limit the refreshability of a complex picture, or both?

[bdraw]

My contacts at each station already knows how everyone feels about multicasting. There is no point in emailing them about it. CBS stopped multicasting a long time ago and so did NBC. ABC has no plans to do it either. In fact the only station that does and plans to do multicasting is PBS.

And there is no point in trying to talk either PBS stations from not multicasting. If they don't multicast then they lose their funding and hence we will ultimately lose as a viewer.

This is why my sugestion was to thank them, and let them know there are viewers, and that we appreciate their efforts. NBC is really the only one that I would like to ask something of.

Also I wasn't really thinking of emailing your contacts, they know how we feel, but does the GM? Does the sales manager? The engineer can tell them till they are blue in the face, but it means more if it is actually coming from the viewer, and it would really mean something if it were coming from the paid advertisers, but that is a much bigger task.

So who do you think would be the best person to contact? Any idea what their email is? Run it by one of your contacts, and see if what they think.

[bdraw]

Maybe it's just my system, but alot of the stuff on 3-5 still looks as good as the stuff on the other uncompressed channels. I only get a bit of moziac when the action is complex and dynamic, otherwise the resolution is great. With multi-casting, does the resolution ceiling come down, or does it just limit the refreshability of a complex picture, or both?

No floyd there is no difference in resolution, only the "Moziac" that you are talking about. A while back Brian talked about them switching over to 720p which would help since it requires less bandwidth than 1080i. Not sure why they haven't done that yet.

[Floyd]

OK, so with multicasting the resolution can still be good. Let's say that WFLA/8-1 decides to launch channel 8-2 and show a weather radar graphic that is refreshed every 10 seconds or so. The weather picture will require far less bandwidth than the regular programming on 8-1. Do they split the bandwith 50/50, or can they allot a reduced amount to 8-2, with say a 70/30 split?
If they can do that, then maybe we won't have a great reduction in viewing with multicasting, or should we worry that they will launch 6 sub-channels and really ruin our pictures?

[Bschneider]

Floyd,

WFLA did exactly what you are describing about two years ago. They had weather radar on 7-2 and normal programming on 7-1. When they finally got their HD encoder from the network they removed 7-2 because of quality of the picture on 7-1 went down.

[bdraw]

OK, so with multicasting the resolution can still be good. Let's say that WFLA/8-1 decides to launch channel 8-2 and show a weather radar graphic that is refreshed every 10 seconds or so. The weather picture will require far less bandwidth than the regular programming on 8-1. Do they split the bandwith 50/50, or can they allot a reduced amount to 8-2, with say a 70/30 split?
If they can do that, then maybe we won't have a great reduction in viewing with multicasting, or should we worry that they will launch 6 sub-channels and really ruin our pictures?

They can allocate as much bandwidth as they want although I am sure there is a minimum. They can't refresh every 10 seconds because if they did it would be possible for you to tune in and have to wait 10 seconds for the picture to load.

The problem with 1080i is that 19.2Mb/s is not enought bandwidth as it is. You can see this if you want football on CBS, you will see the mosiac when they show everyone in the crowd jumping up and waving pom poms. 720p only uses ~16Mb/s so you don't have this problem and you still have room for an SD channel ~4Mb/s.

Honestly I don't think the networks are going to let the local affiliates multicast during primetime anyways. I just don't like the fact that the posiblities for multicasting is stoping NBC from being carried on BHN. I am sick of D* and I only keep it up for a few channels. Also I would like to record off cable in april, and obviously I can only record the shows they get. I just want HD to be simple. A day when my mom can buy a "Digital Cable Ready" HDTV and take it home, plug it in and get all her channels.

I really think that multcasting is just a bump in the road.

[passedpawn]

I think there is a significant "feature" of the digital PSIP data that makes subchannels VERY interesting: automatic commercial selection to suit the particular viewer.

Picture this: your STB allows you to set up "users", each of whom has their own set of favorite channels and settings. One of these settings may be the type of person/viewer you are, i.e., male 38yr old football fan. Now, when it's commercial time, you see the Coors "and twins" ad. If your wife was the current viewer, a feminine deodarant spray commercial would air at the same time. The current PSIP spec allows this to happen. Programming is earmarked with category codes, and your STB can switch dynamically. This seems like a good marketing idea (commercials pay for programming).

I don't remember exactly what it is called, but the feature allows your STB to switch to a subchannel based on some setting that the user has made. It has been part of the PSIP spec for at least a year (www.psip.org), but not implemented in any STB as far as I know.

[JBtampa]

indeed the artifact, or whatever the correct term is, on 3-5 is a problem, or at least it is for me. Seems like any action sequence gets blocky. I do like, however, the program guide that WEDU is broadcasting. I only recently discovered it when I got my new STB that enables it. They are the only local channel that is using it so far. Is it eating up bandwidth as well?

[jaymer]

hey john
what guide are you talking about for PBS?
I only have the pace box.
jaymer...

[Jerry_Pease]

I thought I was loosing my mind, but pbs-hd looks like sh*t. The minute there is any significant object movement or a very busy image the picture goes to hell like someone else described earlier "blocky".

What is the purpose HD if the picture is terrible?

[strong]

Picture this: your STB allows you to set up "users", each of whom has their own set of favorite channels and settings. One of these settings may be the type of person/viewer you are, i.e., male 38yr old football fan. Now, when it's commercial time, you see the Coors "and twins" ad. If your wife was the current viewer, a feminine deodarant spray commercial would air at the same time.

Supposing I'm a lesbian...do I get a commercial of the coors twins using the feminine spray??

[JBtampa]

yikes, the renewd multicasting on NBC is making me crazy already. Doesn't seem as problematic as PBS but that is surely content related and fast moving content will undoubtedly reveal pixelating mosaic (how DO you spell that word? Jaymer we need a spell checker here!). Past experience with Walt Belcher tells me he doesn't give a crap. Oddly, I have found a good ear with Gayle Sierens in the past. She's pretty sharp and very kind. It's interesting that the commercials are proving to be the true casualities of channel eight's misadventure. Will they want those to be messed up? I doubt it. We better write all those talking heads over there.............

Jaymer the guide of which I speak is carried by the station as part of the digital signal package. So far they all carry station ID and type of broadcast, SD or HD, but only PBS is showing program line ups. It's not available on my Dish 6000 terrestrial tuner but my Samsung SIR-T165 does have the feature. Can't speak for other tuners.

John

[passedpawn]

Picture this: your STB allows you to set up "users", each of whom has their own set of favorite channels and settings. One of these settings may be the type of person/viewer you are, i.e., male 38yr old football fan. Now, when it's commercial time, you see the Coors "and twins" ad. If your wife was the current viewer, a feminine deodarant spray commercial would air at the same time.

Supposing I'm a lesbian...do I get a commercial of the coors twins using the feminine spray??

If so, I imagine there will be a lot of "lesbians" logging in.