Proof that DVI from the Pace box is BETTER than Component

[jaymer]

... without a doubt, I just tested this with Superbigg at his house.
He has a new $4k Samsung DLP, 50 inch.

Using the Pace Box, we looked at various signals, but especially BRAIN GAME on INHD (hey, it was all that was on).
A great, well lit studio show with plenty of clarity.
Using Component, numerous "jagges" were seen...
1) in peoples hair,
2) on clothes (one girld was wearing a black/white checkered blouse
3) men's ties... since they present a gentle angle as the hang down.

All these angled surfaces showed VERY annoying, flickering anomalies.
One press of the button to DVI and it reduced it by 90%.
Color was also better, although the set might be fancy enough to have some calibration settings that are specific to varying inputs.

Analog cable WAS watchable via COMPOSITE... he has never used a s-video cable and didn't know it would be better. The internal Video Enhancer helps it be watchable, though they are already spoiled (after 2 weeks) and don't want to watch anything but HD or DVDs.

This unit is SO bright and clear, that even FOX looked fine...great I'd say.
We watched the NFL pregame with Terry Bradshaw in widescreen and an average joe couldn't tell that it wasn't HDTV. Switching to INHD quickly reminds you what true HD is though.

Also, the BHN DVR quality was abolutely terrible.
He was trying to excuse it as "well, NBC is always that cruddy to begin with" so of course its going to look bad through the recorder... but I mean it was REALLY bad. NOT just grainy from possible noise in the source signal, but blocky/jittery during the pan of the camera on a sitcom as someone was walking. Being a TIVO owner of both analog and Directivos, I know what a recorder should do... no one has watched more analog TIVO'd shows than me and none was ever this bad (that includes the entire Babylon 5 run on SciFi, buffy/angel on crappy WB signal, and tape delayed soccer from England). I would NEVER have one of those units in my house if that was typical behavior.

Anyway, Superbigg is ready to pounce on a new DVD Player now... one with DVI, thinking thats going to give him a quantum leap in performance over the component cables that now supply his DVD. The Jury's still out on this one since DVD is only 480p to begin with.
If anyone DOES have one of these, it would be nice to get together for some testing.

Thanks again to the Bigg-meister for having me over to see his nice setup.

Jaymer...

[bdraw]

Jaymer
Your subject should of been

"Proof that the DVI input is better than coponent on a sumsung 50" tv"

An interesting read, but you could never be sure that the coponenet input on samsung Tv's is just really bad.

DVI is a great connection method, no doubt about it. But everyone's setup is a bit different. One TV may look better via DVI and another with Compoenent. Also there are differences in cables etc. I think it is important to explorer all your connection options, articles that proclain one to be better than other may deter others to not discover their optimum setup.

I will tell you that I have seen those 50" samsungs at stores connected via Component, and I really hope that they look better via DVI.

As for the DVD via DVI @ 1080i question. I would say that it will make a difference. Even thought DVD's are 480i sourced alot of gains can be made by processing the signal.

Personally I play my DVD's at 1080i via VGA from my PC to my Mitsu 55" rptv.
I cannot even stand to watch DVD's via my 480p Sony DVD player. I only keep it around so the wife can play movies, since I have never spent the time to setup an easy to use Home Theater PC software.

Downsides to the STB DVD's that upconvert is that they have to be plaeyed via DVI. Also you have no other options for video proccessing, if you use a PC there are tons of other software apps that you can use to improve your picture.

[millerman101]

Bdraw, this is off subject, but what do you use for a video card to watch them on your tv from your pc @ 1080i? And do you use a program to upconvert it out of your computer to your TV..? Can you elaborate! Just curious as I have a Radeon all in wonder...

[CANDY76MAN]

do teh dvd's look any better at 1080i than 480p?....anytime I've seen a comparison of the same material upconverted to either one they look pretty much the same except that the 1080i would show jaggies on fast motion where 480p didn't.

[bdraw]

Bdraw, this is off subject, but what do you use for a video card to watch them on your tv from your pc @ 1080i? And do you use a program to upconvert it out of your computer to your TV..? Can you elaborate! Just curious as I have a Radeon all in wonder...

I have an All-in-Wonder Radeon 8500, I use software called "Power Strip" It allows me to create any custom resolutions I want. TV are like the real old computer monitors they only work a certain resolutions. Not like today's computer monitors that are "Multi-sync". There are only certain resolutions that the TV can display and they are very very picky. PM me I would love to help you set your up for this.

[bdraw]

do teh dvd's look any better at 1080i than 480p?....anytime I've seen a comparison of the same material upconverted to either one they look pretty much the same except that the 1080i would show jaggies on fast motion where 480p didn't.

Once again this depends on the equipment. My TV looks alot different at 480p than 1080i. For some reason using the same inputs, if I change the resolution my TV's color and everything gets changed. For me 1080i is much better than 480p. So I encourge you to try both.
On my setup the upconverted DVD's look better than some movies that come on HBOHD. But I believe that has more to do with the quality of the digital transfer than with the resolution. The movies that have a great digital transfer on HBOHD look much better than DVD, but then again my wife can't even tell the difference maybe most people can't either.

[Max_Gator]

... without a doubt, I just tested this with Superbigg at his house.
He has a new $4k Samsung DLP, 50 inch.

Using the Pace Box, we looked at various signals, but especially BRAIN GAME on INHD (hey, it was all that was on).
A great, well lit studio show with plenty of clarity.
Using Component, numerous "jagges" were seen...
1) in peoples hair,
2) on clothes (one girld was wearing a black/white checkered blouse
3) men's ties... since they present a gentle angle as the hang down.

All these angled surfaces showed VERY annoying, flickering anomalies.
One press of the button to DVI and it reduced it by 90%.
Color was also better, although the set might be fancy enough to have some calibration settings that are specific to varying inputs.

Analog cable WAS watchable via COMPOSITE... he has never used a s-video cable and didn't know it would be better. The internal Video Enhancer helps it be watchable, though they are already spoiled (after 2 weeks) and don't want to watch anything but HD or DVDs.

This unit is SO bright and clear, that even FOX looked fine...great I'd say.
We watched the NFL pregame with Terry Bradshaw in widescreen and an average joe couldn't tell that it wasn't HDTV. Switching to INHD quickly reminds you what true HD is though.

Also, the BHN DVR quality was abolutely terrible.
He was trying to excuse it as "well, NBC is always that cruddy to begin with" so of course its going to look bad through the recorder... but I mean it was REALLY bad. NOT just grainy from possible noise in the source signal, but blocky/jittery during the pan of the camera on a sitcom as someone was walking. Being a TIVO owner of both analog and Directivos, I know what a recorder should do... no one has watched more analog TIVO'd shows than me and none was ever this bad (that includes the entire Babylon 5 run on SciFi, buffy/angel on crappy WB signal, and tape delayed soccer from England). I would NEVER have one of those units in my house if that was typical behavior.

Anyway, Superbigg is ready to pounce on a new DVD Player now... one with DVI, thinking thats going to give him a quantum leap in performance over the component cables that now supply his DVD. The Jury's still out on this one since DVD is only 480p to begin with.
If anyone DOES have one of these, it would be nice to get together for some testing.

Thanks again to the Bigg-meister for having me over to see his nice setup.

Jaymer...

I have the 43" DLP and my experience is the same as you've described regarding the DVI quality.

Out of curiosity, is he setting the pace box to 720 and letting it scale or is he setting it to pass? I've found that the pass setting ends up with some weird dimensions.

I'm not sure though why he would be watching analog cable via composite instead of DVI??

As for the DVR - I agree. The PQ is HORRIBLE.

As for the DVD player - as I understand it the Sammy 931 forces a stretch of any 4:3 DVD to 16:9. Nondefeatable. The Bravo does not.

[superbigg]

Out of curiosity, is he setting the pace box to 720 and letting it scale or is he setting it to pass? I've found that the pass setting ends up with some weird dimensions.

I'm not sure though why he would be watching analog cable via composite instead of DVI??

As for the DVR - I agree. The PQ is HORRIBLE.

As for the DVD player - as I understand it the Sammy 931 forces a stretch of any 4:3 DVD to 16:9. Nondefeatable. The Bravo does not.

I am setting the pace box to "pass". i will try it on 720 and see

I watch my DVR stuff on Analog right now. I am waiting for the New SA8000 "HD" DVR to come out. Then it will be all DVI and only one Cable Box.

The DVD issue i am also waitting on the newer modles to come out. Both Bravo and 931 have issues.

Superbigg

PS if anyone needs to see it in action let me know.

[Max_Gator]

Out of curiosity, is he setting the pace box to 720 and letting it scale or is he setting it to pass? I've found that the pass setting ends up with some weird dimensions.

I'm not sure though why he would be watching analog cable via composite instead of DVI??

As for the DVR - I agree. The PQ is HORRIBLE.

As for the DVD player - as I understand it the Sammy 931 forces a stretch of any 4:3 DVD to 16:9. Nondefeatable. The Bravo does not.

I am setting the pace box to "pass". i will try it on 720 and see

I watch my DVR stuff on Analog right now. I am waiting for the New SA8000 "HD" DVR to come out. Then it will be all DVI and only one Cable Box.

The DVD issue i am also waitting on the newer modles to come out. Both Bravo and 931 have issues.

Superbigg

PS if anyone needs to see it in action let me know.

Ah, I see. I'm in the same boat with the DVR.

The only issue I know of with the Bravo is that it forces 4:3 to be 4:3 - which is fine by me. Are there any others?

[JBtampa]

agreed that unfortunately there is no DVI "standard", or at least so says the instruction book with my Cineos tv. At any rate, I hooked up my new STB via DVI and my Dish 6000 with component. If I tune in the same local channel on both and A/B, the DVI has more detail, brightness, and saturation. (saturation: isn't that an analog word?)

[Jerry_Pease]

The only issue I know of with the Bravo is that it forces 4:3 to be 4:3 - which is fine by me.with one click of the zoom button and it is stretched out to widescreen perfectly. ;)

[mrmoi]

Did BHN just change the DVI output last night? Because now when the box starts (after unplugging) it says my TV doesn't support their type of DVI, which I have been using fine for the past three months.

Ah HAH, it looks like they have begun to use HDCP encryption!!! Have they always?

I have the PACE box and a Samsung DLP which are both supposed to be HDCP compliant. Could it be the cable from the box to the TV.

new thread started about hdcp and bhn

[gmclaughlin]

mrmoi,

Is is a Samsung HLN series? There's a known compatability issue with HDCP on that series of TV that Pace is working on. It's not the cable.

[mrmoi]

Yes it is an HLN. But it has been working since I got the TV three months ago. I am hoping that another update to the Pace box will make it work at some point. This is the first time it hasn't worked.

[CANDY76MAN]

Did BHN just change the DVI output last night? Because now when the box starts (after unplugging) it says my TV doesn't support their type of DVI, which I have been using fine for the past three months.

Ah HAH, it looks like they have begun to use HDCP encryption!!! Have they always?

I have the PACE box and a Samsung DLP which are both supposed to be HDCP compliant. Could it be the cable from the box to the TV.

That must be why both my Pace boxes turned off on their own last nite....but my DVI still works fine with my RCA RPTV.

on the DVI vs Component on the Pace box...I have both hooked up to my tv now so I can switch back and forth quickly and I honestly can't see any difference whatsoever in picture quality...colors look the same, it's just as sharp, there's no change in graininess......maybe some sets just don't have as good a component input as others?

[mrmoi]

Yes, I have read where the Samsung's component input isn't so great. My DVI looked awesome though.

[jaymer]

As I stated in another thread, BHN's official stance is to have their users use component hookups.
This is strictly because "it always works" and will lead to a satisfied customer... as opposed to using DVI and potentially having one of the units that has issues with the PACE HDCP methodology.

I was told directly by the Hillsborough head engineer that he saw no improvement when comparing the two, but has not responded to my inquiries about which type of TV he was using. CANDYMAN doesn't see any improvement either, but that can be just because of his TV.

As stated in this thread, I still standby the personal experience I have seen. It doesn't mean I'd go postal if the DVI was shutoff - cause the component picture is still fine.

[SUBZERO]

I used the DVI on my television (Hitachi 46W500) for about a week and really couldn't detect any substantial differences. Image quality as well as color seems the same with components.

I guess it depends on the tv.