Can someone explain, please?

[CactusJack]

Why do some shows appear to be in a 16:9 aspect ratio (tho I haven't actually measured), but they have black bars top and bottom AND on the sides? I see this a lot on the Sci-Fi channel. This is even on the Sci-Fi HD channel (Stargate reruns, for example), although some of their shows do appear in "full" widescreen.
I've also seen this on some DVDs. They are labeled as Widescreen, but again they have bars top, bottom, AND sides. When I see this, I feel like I was cheated out of a "true" widescreen movie.

Thanks,
Jack

[SomeRandomIdiot]

Why do some shows appear to be in a 16:9 aspect ratio (tho I haven't actually measured), but they have black bars top and bottom AND on the sides? I see this a lot on the Sci-Fi channel. This is even on the Sci-Fi HD channel (Stargate reruns, for example), although some of their shows do appear in "full" widescreen.
I've also seen this on some DVDs. They are labeled as Widescreen, but again they have bars top, bottom, AND sides. When I see this, I feel like I was cheated out of a "true" widescreen movie.

Thanks,
Jack

It was the same way for for Stargate Atlantis on Fox 13 during recent years. 16:9 reduced to 4:3. You could hit the zoom on your TV and it would expand to fill the gaps.

Its the same way if you watch Fox HD on the SD channel of WTVT now (or Conan on NBC).

[CactusJack]

The picture is definitely NOT 4:3, it's 16:9. Can anyone explain why this is done?

Thanks,
Jack

[SomeRandomIdiot]

The picture is definitely NOT 4:3, it's 16:9. Can anyone explain why this is done?

Thanks,
Jack

As stated in post #2, yes its 16:9 reduced to 4:3.

When you have 16:9 and 4:3 is sent out, there are only 3 possible ways to handle it.

1) You center cut everything for 4:3, such as CBS, NBC and ABC are expecting cable to do for the SD Cable Feeds.

2) Pan and Scan the 16:9 image for 4:3, keeping the 4:3 cut where most of the action is

3) Take the entire 16:9 image and reduce it to fit in the 4:3 area. This is what Fox is expecting its stations to do for 4:3 cable feeds.

You get black bars at the top and bottom because you have to reduce the height to fit 16:9 into the 4:3 area. You get black bars on the side just as you do when any 4:3 program is broadcast on a 16:9 HDTV, as they are broadcsting a 4:3 picture of a 16:9 image.

[Floyd]

3) Take the entire 16:9 image and reduce it to fit in the 4:3 area. This is what Fox is expecting its stations to do for 4:3 cable feeds.

You get black bars at the top and bottom because you have to reduce the height to fit 16:9 into the 4:3 area. You get black bars on the side just as you do when any 4:3 program is broadcast on a 16:9 HDTV, as they are broadcsting a 4:3 picture of a 16:9 image.

Assuming the two above paragraphs are related, I still can't get my mind around it, and can't understand why they would need to keep the bars on the sides of a 16:9 image.

[ramarc]

Why do some shows appear to be in a 16:9 aspect ratio (tho I haven't actually measured), but they have black bars top and bottom AND on the sides? I see this a lot on the Sci-Fi channel. This is even on the Sci-Fi HD channel (Stargate reruns, for example), although some of their shows do appear in "full" widescreen.
I've also seen this on some DVDs. They are labeled as Widescreen, but again they have bars top, bottom, AND sides. When I see this, I feel like I was cheated out of a "true" widescreen movie.

Thanks,
Jack

Sci-Fi HD broadcasts a lot of widescreen content letterboxed. Generally only the first run programs (prime-time) are HD widescreen. As for DVDs, it depends on if they were mastered for widescreen 16:9 viewing. Some are letterboxed to preserve the original presentation but are still not designed for 16:9 viewing.

[SomeRandomIdiot]

Assuming the two above paragraphs are related, I still can't get my mind around it, and can't understand why they would need to keep the bars on the sides of a 16:9 image.

Flip on Fox 13 Non-HD for 24 or any other Show this week and you will see the same thing.

[CactusJack]

I'm obviously still not understanding aspect ratio. Last night I measured the displayed picture; on my HDTV, it measured 32" x 18", which is exactly 16:9. So, if it is physically 16:9, why is it not filling the entire screen? Same effect on some DVDs, the picture is physically 16:9, but it's like they shrank it to the middle of the screen.

[bdraw]

DVD's are not 16x9, and in the early days could only display a 4x3 image. The actual resolution is 720x480, so obviously you'll ask why isn't it 640x480? The answer is the pixels aren't square.

But sometime after DVDs were out, the spec was updated to support anamorphic (this discs are labeled on the back as "optimized for widescreen"). The early DVDs were similar to what you see on SciFi and some other widescreen content optimized for 4x3 TVs. Because the actual content is not 4x3, like it is stored or delivered, black bars are inserted on the top and bottom. So when you watch widescreen content optimized for a 4x3 TV on a 16x9 TV, you get black bars on all four sides (top and bottom is in the signal, right and left are inserted by your equipment at home.)

The way anamorphic DVDs work is that the signal is stored on the disc (or in the signal in the case of older Fox Widescreen) as 4x3, but with an aspect ratio bit of 16x9. So when the player or TV decodes the mpeg, it displays it as 16x9 even though it was stored as 4x3.

Now to even further muddy things up, movies are not filmed at either 16x9 (1.77:1) or 4x3 (1.33:1). They are filmed at either 1.85:1 or 2.35:1, so every single movie you watch should have black bars on the top or bottom. If they don't, it's because it is cropped. You probably don't notice because 1.85 is so close to 1.77 the bars are very small. TVs show however are filmed or recorded at 1.85:1. You can check IMDB's tech specs link to see what the original aspect ratio of films were and what types of cameras were used.

[pilotbob]

I'm obviously still not understanding aspect ratio. Last night I measured the displayed picture; on my HDTV, it measured 32" x 18", which is exactly 16:9. So, if it is physically 16:9, why is it not filling the entire screen? Same effect on some DVDs, the picture is physically 16:9, but it's like they shrank it to the middle of the screen.

Check out this web site:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/anamorphic/aspectratios/widescreenorama.html

BOb

[bdraw]

You were the motivate for my latest feature on Engadget.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/02/19/hd-101-why-there-are-black-bars-on-hdtvs/

[Bschneider]

Excellent!

[Palmateer]

Thanks!

Too bad TV executives still think the public is too stupid to demand an end to stretching, linear or not!