I'm dissapointed!

[CANDY76MAN]

I got my new bdrom and a video card with hdmi output for my htpc this weekend along with powerdvd8 that says it supports dolby truehd. Got everything up and running only to discover that there is no actual way to use dolby truehd with the equipment I got and pretty much no way with any other equipment currently available unless you go analog and even then there are compromises.

Why does powerdvd not mention ANYWHERE that even though they can send a dolbytruehd bitstream to a compatible reciever, there is currently no videocard that has a hdmi 1.3 output to make that happen?

It's just a big letdown, I'm used to HD video now so the ability to watch movies in 1080p is great but not as big a deal to me as it would have been a few years ago, but I was really looking forward to hearing the new lossless surround sound formats on my new speakers and reciever that decodes them.
If anyone here knows of any video card that has 1.3 compliant hdmi output please let me know.

[bdraw]

There are a few sound cards that do it, but they are too expensive.

The bottom line is that a $229 Nsignia Blu-ray player is better than a HTPC, no matter how much money you have if you want 24p and bitstream TrueHD and DTS-HD.

I currently use ArcSoft TMT, which is really good, but come this holiday season (hopefully lower prices) I'm going back to a stand-alone player.

[pilotbob]

I can't seem to encourage myself to get on the Blu-Ray band wagon. I guess 480p is good enough for me. Perhaps when the BD players get to be under $100 I'll be more motivated. Although by then I tend to think I will be getting most of my rentals digitally.

BOb

[bdraw]

No doubt if quality isn't important to you then there is no need, but like anything else, ignorance is bliss and once you get accustomed to the quality of Blu-ray movies, it's hard to enjoy anything else.

The nice thing is that with Netflix all you have to do is buy the player and pay $20/mo to watch whatever you want.

[CANDY76MAN]

The cheapest bluray I had seen was 320 bucks for a samsung so I'll deffinantly check out the insignia....I assume you have one or have used one? Are there any features missing from it that are included in the more expensive models?

I may wait till thanksgiving to get one, I expect to see a few available then for 200 or less hopefully since a new blueray player would be a great gift if the price is right...I'm sure the bd manufacturers realize that too.

[bdraw]

I haven't played with one yet, but the cnet review basically says if you have a TV that supports 24p and a AVR that has HDMI 1.3, then it is a great deal, otherwise you may want to look at other options as the 1080i60 output wasn't that good.

As for the rest, most of the players have lowered the MSRP to $299 now, so you can get the Sony, Samsung or Panasonic for less than 320 bucks now. I'm sure by black friday we'll see some for $200 etc.

[pilotbob]

No doubt if quality isn't important to you then there is no need, but like anything else, ignorance is bliss and once you get accustomed to the quality of Blu-ray movies, it's hard to enjoy anything else.

The nice thing is that with Netflix all you have to do is buy the player and pay $20/mo to watch whatever you want.

Quality is important but not $400 worth important. Also, widescreen 480p and DTS sound from my DVD is much better than some SD 480i TV station. Also, you can get a nice upscaling DVD player these days for less than $100. I just might do that. My old VHS/DVD combo machine isn't the best quality.

That said, we don't watch alot on DVD as it is. Usually just during the summer.

I did consider getting the roko box, but my wife had just signed us up for Blockbuster's mail thing the day before it was released. Also, you with Netflix you can watch "as much" as you want, perhaps, but not "whatever" you want. My understanding is the available streaming catalog is only a small portion of the DVD catalog.

BOb

[bdraw]

Like I already said, Blu-ray players aren't $400 anymore. Was just at Best buy earlier and they have the new Sony for $300 and the new Samsung for $269.

As for upconverters, they cost about 80-150 depending on the model, so anyone who cares anything about quality would spend another $80 to get a Blu-ray player that will also upconvert DVDs.

There isn't much worse quality than the Netflix, it's stepping back from DVD even.

I remember going back in the pre-DVD days when people made the same comments about the VHS to DVD switch. In fact my mother still insists there is no difference.

I also remember how underwhelmed I was when I first saw HD DVD, I said "my biggest fear is that some people won't be able to tell the difference." But after I was watching Blu-ray movies for a few months I tried to watch a DVD and found it unbearable.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/04/19/hd-dvd-review/

It really is amazing how you can become so accustomed to quality that you forget how bad it was until you go back and look at it again.

[pilotbob]

Like I already said, Blu-ray players aren't $400 anymore. Was just at Best buy earlier and they have the new Sony for $300 and the new Samsung for $269.

As for upconverters, they cost about 80-150 depending on the model, so anyone who cares anything about quality would spend another $80 to get a Blu-ray player that will also upconvert DVDs.


Well, 80 + 80 is $160, not $269. Also, if I was going to spend $400 I would probably get a PS3 which still seems to be the best BD player out there.

BOb

[bdraw]

If you want to compare the cheapest DVD upconverter, but I doubt many will.

The PS3 is a gaming machine that plays Blu-ray movies too, not really a fair comparison, but it isn't the best anymore. It is still upgradable, which is nice, but can't bitstream TrueHD or DTS-HD. The other new players can do everything the PS3 can do and more, and for much less money now.

A lot has changed in the past few months.

[CactusJack]

There isn't much worse quality than the Netflix, it's stepping back from DVD even.
And watching TV shows / movies / videos on a cell phone, and "how many (illegally obtained?) MP3s can I get on my cell phone / cheap MP3 player?", and You Tube....
I think the rush to "get it now / play it now" is part of why the revolution to HD has been relatively slow, compared to some other new technologies. Too many people are satisfied with these low-res but "instant" capabilities that they are not encouraging more HD.

/off my soapbox

Jack

[HDJerry]

How right you are, Jack. I'm a University Media Librarian and it amazes me but my students would much rather sit in their rooms downloading low rez movies and watching them on their laptops than walk across the street to take out a free DVD.

[bdraw]

And watching TV shows / movies / videos on a cell phone, and "how many (illegally obtained?) MP3s can I get on my cell phone / cheap MP3 player?", and You Tube....
I think the rush to "get it now / play it now" is part of why the revolution to HD has been relatively slow, compared to some other new technologies. Too many people are satisfied with these low-res but "instant" capabilities that they are not encouraging more HD.


If video were comparable to audio -- like you just tried to do -- you'd see more $5000 HT systems next to new HDTVs, instead of a $200 HTIB that you actually see.

My point is that when the price of upconverters is the same as Blu-ray, it will be a no brainer. It may happend next christmas or the one after, but either way it'll happen. And no, people don't have to replace their collection, Blu-ray disc players play DVDs just as good.

[bdraw]

How right you are, Jack. I'm a University Media Librarian and it amazes me but my students would much rather sit in their rooms downloading low rez movies and watching them on their laptops than walk across the street to take out a free DVD.


When I was in college I watched a 13-inch B&W with a rotary dial, now I have a 60-inch plasma. It's not that they don't care, it's that they don't have a choice -- there laptop screens have been res, than the TV they can afford. Also, my parents have a 70-inch SDTV, and I'd rather watch HD on my 13-inch laptop then SD on the 70-inch.

[HDJerry]

Then we will agree to disagree. It is a mnatter of convenience, I assure you, not resolution, whether we are talking audio or video. Just ask them.

[Bschneider]

Not that it really matters but I'm with Ben.. I would rather watch a movie on my laptop than my SDTV. But I also think its going to be half and half. Half that cares about the rez and the other half convenience.

[bdraw]

When you are asking them that, ask them if they want a free 50-inch HDTV.

[pilotbob]

The PS3 is a gaming machine that plays Blu-ray movies too, not really a fair comparison, but it isn't the best anymore. It is still upgradable, which is nice, but can't bitstream TrueHD or DTS-HD. The other new players can do everything the PS3 can do and more, and for much less money now.


Ah... thanks I didn't know that. However, I don't think my current receiver supports those audio formats anyway. It is supposed to be upgradeable but I don't know that any upgrades have ever been made available for it. It is an Onkyo HT-R510 that I've had for ever (in technology years).

A lot has changed in the past few months.[/QUOTE]

Damn you Moore's law!

BOb

[SomeRandomIdiot]

Then we will agree to disagree. It is a mnatter of convenience, I assure you, not resolution, whether we are talking audio or video. Just ask them.

Agreed. Which is why Netflix 3 hour delay to get top quality download to watch is a non-starter.

[CactusJack]

If video were comparable to audio -- like you just tried to do -- you'd see more $5000 HT systems next to new HDTVs, instead of a $200 HTIB that you actually see.
Well, my point is that no matter the entertainment media, more people put higher importance on quantity and convenience than on quality. That's why they accept the lower-quality of the Netflix "instant" streaming over waiting three days or so for a better quality DVD or Blu-ray disc in the mail.

[CANDY76MAN]

Hey Bdraw, I can't seem to find a definitive answer on this anywhere so I figured I'll ask you since you suggested it :)

About insignia blu ray player..... I am reading some stuff that says it only does 2 channel dolby truehd and other stuff that seems to imply it does 7.1 channel true hd. So which is it?

I have a reciever that can decode dts master audio and dolby truehd 7.1 so all I need is for the player to output the bit stream that the reciever needs for those. If the insignia won't do that then what is cheapest alternative that can?

Thanks!

[bdraw]

The player itself only has the ability to decode two channel. However if your AVR has HDMI 1.3 and the ability to decode TrueHD and DTS-HD, the player has the ability to pass the bits on to the AVR so it can decode.

I wrote a big piece to explain all this here.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/22/how-to-actually-use-dolby-truehd-and-dts-hd/

[CANDY76MAN]

Ok, so I have a onkyo sr606 reciever. If I end up getting the insignia bluray player that best buy is selling for about 230 bucks right now I should be able to hook it up via hdmi (my receiver has hdmi1.3) to my reciever and play ddplus, dolby truehd 7.1, and dtshd soundtracks correct? What about dtshd master sound tracks? The insignia specs never list that one so does that mean it won't send that bitstream to my reciever or that it just can't decode it internally?

Thanks for the info by the way, The way sites list the specs for these things is somewhat confusing.

[bdraw]

Yes that is correct, with that AVR you'll be able to enjoy all the latest audio codecs with the isignia player.

There is another consideration though. The Insignia player doesn't have very good video processing. If your TV will accept 1080p24 you won't need it however, since that is the native resolution of most Blu-ray discs. If your TV only accepts 1080p60 (or 30), which is much more common, then it may not be the best player has it isn't very good at converting 1080p24 to 1080p60.

If this is the case then it is worth it to pay another $70 for the BD-P1500, or pick one up on Amazon for $214 right now.
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-BD-P1500-1080p-Blu-ray-Player/dp/B0014H16V0/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1224338519&sr=8-1

What's great is if you are a Matrix fan, you can get the complete Blu-ray box set for free when you order it with a BD-P1500, an $99 value.

Or if you don't mind signing up for yet another Credit Card, signing up for a Sony Card saves you $150 off your first purchase, which makes the Sony BDP-S350 only $150.

Not only do both the Sony and the Samsung offer better video processing (again only useful if your TV won't accept 1080p24), but they both do BD Live which might be fun if you have an Ethernet connection behind your TV. Basically it lets you download content from the Internet to the player, and play games online. But so far all the BD Live content I've seen is just cheesy.

[CANDY76MAN]

I just ordered the samsung with the matrix triligy for free, that's a great deal..... Thanks for the heads up:)

My samsung dlp will actually display 24 fps but I had reservations about the "generic" insignia player and the samsung is actually cheaper so it's a no brainer,lol.
Got another thirty bucks off by signing up for a amazon card plus free two day shipping so I'm happy!

[SomeRandomIdiot]

Do you expect the Samsung BD-P1500 to be the best value to performance level BD player of choice up until CES rolls round? If so I might go ahead and buy one now for my brother's family for the Holidays.

[bdraw]

Yeah the BD-P1500 has just about everything you'd want except built in storage for BD Live, but luckily 1GB USB drives are very cheap these days.

I reviewed both the BD-P1500 and BDP-S350.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/08/14/sony-bdp-s350-review/
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/04/samsung-bd-p1500-review/

They are both very comparable.
The thing I liked about the sony is it has built in AV Sync which can be adjusted on the fly.

But if you don't have a newer receiver, the Samsung is nicer because it will internally decode the TrueHD and output it as DTS apposed to Dolby Digital like the Sony.