FiOS - First impressions

[breitmeyer]

Finally got hooked up yesterday and my initial impressions are positive. However I wanted to share them with you all to see if we have some common views.

FiOS Internet - Fantastic. No problems whatsoever. The Modem/router/WAP they gave me was easy to configure and works like a charm. I haven't done an official test with my system yet, but it is noticeably faster than BHN RR.

Phone - no problems; hey, it rings when I have a call, and gives me a dialtone when I want to make a call... what more do I need? :) I will miss Vonage though and the internet dashboard features it had.

FiOS TV - I have the HD DVR and one SD box. I actually like the guide and operations of the HD DVR (and SD box too). I find the DVR simple enough to use and am considering dumping my TiVo service to just use this DVR. I'm gonna give it more time though.

Things I've noticed: The SD channels look terrible on my HDTV. Worse than BHN. They do look great on an SDTV.

I've also noticed the audio quality of some of the channels is very poor. My 3 year old watches Disney and the audio sounds tinny and very compressed. Other channels sound better.

As far as Video quality, it seems the HD channels look decent, but I still see a lot of noise in them. I mean I can see the film grain in the picture since a lot of shows are shot on film (maybe that's a good thing?). There's occasional mosquito noise around graphics and sometimes microblocking. I thought FiOS had the upper hand in this area since they have more bandwidth to use, especially over BHN. I'm not unhappy, but kind of expected better. I will give it time though.

Questions:
Is there a way to make it so that all of the SD channels stay in their original 4:3 aspect instead of being stretched to the screen? My TV isn't doing this and so far I've not found a toggle for the cable box to change it. I do know you can change the default output in the menus to 480i, 720p or 1080i, but it seems like it's one way only, even for SD.

I have more questions and will post them later, gotta run out right now... feel free to comment on any of my observations.

[StevenA]

The picture and audio artifacts you are getting might be due to a problem in your in-house wiring. From what I've read, that seems to be the problem most of the time when people are getting a poor signal from an initial installation. If the installer used the existing coaxial cable from your BHN connection, make sure that coaxial cable is labeled RG6 and not RG59. Also, if you can get to the wiring, make sure all connections and signal splitters are tight. If any signal splitters or connectors look the slightest bit corroded replace them.

[breitmeyer]

actually I have made an improvement, I initially used the HDMI cable that Verizon gave me. On a hunch I swapped it out for a good set of Component cables and the picture looks nicer now. I think I'm just gonna order a better HDMI cable and go back to it.

I'm pretty sure all of my in house wiring is RG6.

Verizon still has some issues to work out though, I have an open ticket for my internet speeds. I'm only getting 12/1 on my 20/5 service. When they fix that it might improve signal quality more, who knows.

[FTBoomerIII]

Thanks for updating, please let us know how your impressions change. I've had FIOS available for almost a year now but haven't made the switch. Price difference wasn't enough for the hassle I'd have to get from my wife.

Keep us posted.

[Bschneider]

...
Things I've noticed: The SD channels look terrible on my HDTV. Worse than BHN. They do look great on an SDTV.
...
Questions:
Is there a way to make it so that all of the SD channels stay in their original 4:3 aspect instead of being stretched to the screen? My TV isn't doing this and so far I've not found a toggle for the cable box to change it. I do know you can change the default output in the menus to 480i, 720p or 1080i, but it seems like it's one way only, even for SD.


If you are able, my recommendation is to output all 480i channels to 480i or 480p. Leave the HD channels in thier current format. Your SD channels will improve a great deal. This goes for BHN or FiOS.

[bdraw]

The Series3 or the TiVo HD is the best bet in regards to DVR for FiOS.

As for the PQ and AQ of the HD channels.
FiOS simply passes on the signal they receive vs BHN which compresses things a little further to make more efficient use of each QAM channel.

Where are you doing the speed test from?
I get what I'm promised from speedtest.net, but've never gotten the upload speeds in the real world. I have exceeded the 20Mbps a few times downloading from easynews.com

[Maestro]

actually I have made an improvement, I initially used the HDMI cable that Verizon gave me. On a hunch I swapped it out for a good set of Component cables and the picture looks nicer now. I think I'm just gonna order a better HDMI cable and go back to it.

I'm pretty sure all of my in house wiring is RG6.

Verizon still has some issues to work out though, I have an open ticket for my internet speeds. I'm only getting 12/1 on my 20/5 service. When they fix that it might improve signal quality more, who knows.

There really is no such thing as a better HDMI cable. It is just carrying 1's and 0's. Save some money and get the discount cables from monoprice.com

On a related note, I noticed the exact same thing with FiOS SDTV on my HDTV. I tried everything. Ended up dumping the TV service. But they made me such a sweet offer I am going back after almost a year...The reality is that I don't watch so much SDTV anyways...

[breitmeyer]

Maestro, good call on the monoprice.com cables, that's what I was going to get :) I am honestly surprised to see how "crappy" the HDMI cable looks compared to the Component. I left them both hooked up for comparison and I switch between them on occasion. The difference is very noticable. I imagine there could be many factors contributing to this, so I'm still gonna mess around with it to see if I can't get it looking better via HDMI.

And as far as my speed tests, the Verizon customer service guy took over my computer and used www.speakeasy.net/speedtest and that's where I got my posted speeds. He said that was one they use to judge more accurately. I just tried it again and I'm getting 11/4 now, better upload, slightly worse download. We'll see what happens tomorrow as they are supposedly going to have this issue "fixed" tomorrow.

And Bschneider, I have tried unsucessfully to change the default SDTV channels to 480p. How can I do that on the Moto 6416 HD DVR? I tried doing what the manual said (just press Menu) but there are no settings I can change with respect to the SDTV channel default. I also want to change the fact that they always output in stretched mode, which I read can be done. Can someone help me access the menu that does this? All I can do is change the default TV format output which is set to 1080i 16:9.

[breitmeyer]

ok so I thought the DVR had to be OFF to change the settings for 4:3 override and stuff, but I cannot get it to work like other forums say, even the manual online says this.

Anyone have any suggestions?

[HDJerry]

Have you tried the buttons on the box rather than the remote?

[DSquare]

I agree with that a different HDMI cable will not solve your problems since its digital but there is a difference in quality of the cables. I can only judge by the two brands that I have used. One being Monster Cable and the other being Rocketfish which is a BestBuy brand cable. The Rocketfish's cable ends came undone and came lodged into my TV set. After reading a customer review on BestBuy's web page I see that I'm not the only one.

[bdraw]

If component looks better (or worse) than HDMI then its either your TVs fault or the STB, because they should look almost identical. I missed what kind of TV you had, but it's been some time since I heard anyone say component looked better than HDMI, so I'd suspect it is the Moto DVR. Not sure if they all have this problem or if you have a bad one.

[breitmeyer]

just a quick update to the questions presented to me...

I have tried the buttons on the STB to bring up the menus that let me change the SDTV settings, all to no avail.

My HDTV is a Mitsubishi 52628 DLP 1080P.

I am suspecting that I may have a defective STB like you are thinking bdraw, there shouldn't be this much difference between component and HDMI that I'm seeing. I wonder if it also is causing me to be unable to change the SDTV settings like the manual says I should be able.

I will probably give a call to Fios tech support soon and get this figured out. They still haven't gotten me above 14mbps down on my 20/5 service.

[Maestro]

If component looks better (or worse) than HDMI then its either your TVs fault or the STB, because they should look almost identical. I missed what kind of TV you had, but it's been some time since I heard anyone say component looked better than HDMI, so I'd suspect it is the Moto DVR. Not sure if they all have this problem or if you have a bad one.

Bdraw,

When I originally had FiOS tv the tech said with HDMI they sometimes get something called the screendoor effect that they do not get with Component. I have no idea if this is true or not, but he seemed to this so.

Steve

[Maestro]

Bret,

By the way...are you using windows XP or Vista? Which internet package do you have? I have the 20/20 and with Vista there is actually a hotfix you need to get in order to reach those speeds. If you have XP, speedguide.net has some excellent tcp tweaking programs..Drop me a line if you need more info... tampamaestroATyahoo.com

[CactusJack]

If component looks better (or worse) than HDMI then its either your TVs fault or the STB, because they should look almost identical. I missed what kind of TV you had, but it's been some time since I heard anyone say component looked better than HDMI, so I'd suspect it is the Moto DVR. Not sure if they all have this problem or if you have a bad one.
I have a Samsung 46" DLP HDTV (720p). When I had a Pace HD STB with BHN, my initial connection was component. I later got an HDMI cable. In my particular case, I preferred the component connection; the HDMI just did not look as sharp. Plus, channel changing was much slower. When changing, by the time the picture came up, the info bar at the bottom had disappeared.
Again, this was just my own experience and preference. I now have an SA8300HD STB, but have not tried the HDMI connection with it.

Jack

[bdraw]

Bdraw,

When I originally had FiOS tv the tech said with HDMI they sometimes get something called the screendoor effect that they do not get with Component. I have no idea if this is true or not, but he seemed to this so.

Steve

The screendoor effect refers to being able to see the pixel on the screen and is common in DLPs, because of their dot pitch. I have no idea how HDMI could cause this. But even on TVs with this problem, you have to be sitting really close to notice it.

[bdraw]

I have a Samsung 46" DLP HDTV (720p). When I had a Pace HD STB with BHN, my initial connection was component. I later got an HDMI cable. In my particular case, I preferred the component connection; the HDMI just did not look as sharp. Plus, channel changing was much slower. When changing, by the time the picture came up, the info bar at the bottom had disappeared.
Again, this was just my own experience and preference. I now have an SA8300HD STB, but have not tried the HDMI connection with it.

Jack

Yes, TVs and STBs are different, so it makes sense to see what works for you.

As for the changing channel problem, I'd suspect with HDMI you might have had the STB set to pass through the native resolution, which can take up to 5 seconds to sync different resolutions depending on the TV. With component you probably have it set to always output 1080i or 720p, so your TV doesn't have to resync when you change the channel.

[Maestro]

OK. So I am now in to my second go around with FIOS (probably a year in between)...The TV looks fantastic. I don't know if I was an early adopter or what...but I know it looks much better. Nothing has changed on my end.

I also notice FiOS is now using a new remote. Much nicer than the previous one they gave me.

The tech said the remote was RF but I am about 99% sure he is wrong...

Anyways, I am much happier with the picture this time around. The guide could use a little love, but I guess it is a work in progress.

Steve

[breitmeyer]

Bret,

By the way...are you using windows XP or Vista? Which internet package do you have? I have the 20/20 and with Vista there is actually a hotfix you need to get in order to reach those speeds. If you have XP, speedguide.net has some excellent tcp tweaking programs..Drop me a line if you need more info... tampamaestroATyahoo.com

I am using XP Pro. And of course the first thing the customer support guy did was "take over" my computer with a Citrix app (nice touch lol) and do some speed tweaks. Still hasn't gotten close to 20 down though. I wish they had a better way to make sure I was getting 20mbps to the router instead of always "blaming" the computer.

I will check out speedguide.net, I remember using them from the first days of RoadRunner back in the late 90's :)

[IanGator]

Questions:
Is there a way to make it so that all of the SD channels stay in their original 4:3 aspect instead of being stretched to the screen? My TV isn't doing this and so far I've not found a toggle for the cable box to change it. I do know you can change the default output in the menus to 480i, 720p or 1080i, but it seems like it's one way only, even for SD.

I have more questions and will post them later, gotta run out right now... feel free to comment on any of my observations.

If you have the HD DVR, you have the motorola QIP 6416-2. This is what I have.

If you are sure your tv is not doing this, than the cable box is the culprit. For some reason your box got stuck on the stretch mode when performing a 4:3 overide.

There is no way to change this unless you go into the service menu by doing the following: Power off the 6416, and immediately hit "select" and then "menu" right after, on the front of the cable box. This will bring you to the service menu.

Hit down twice, then hit to the right to reset the 4:3 override to the following options - 480i, 480p, stretch, or off. When finished just hit "Menu" again, and then power the box back on.

I discovered this during some web research that talks about a known glitch in the cable box that defaults the 4:3 overide to 480i every time you change the resolution in the standard video format menu. If I change my resolution in the standard menu, I have to go into this service menu to get it off of 480i again.

I actually keep the mode on "off". This prevents the player from changing anything, and allowing my tv to do the scaling. This also prevents the change delay caused by the change in resolutions when switching between SD and HD.

I'm still unclear how your box got stuck in "stretch mode". But going into the service menu will atleast allow you to know what is going on.

Hope this Helps!

[Bschneider]

Hope this Helps!

Thanks for the instructions.. I have been too busy to stop for a few moments and do this myself..

And welcome to the forum!

[breitmeyer]

IanGator, fantastic instructions, that's what I was looking for! Thanks! I will try this tonight when I get home tonight, my system is doing exactly what you described.

[IanGator]

IanGator, fantastic instructions, that's what I was looking for! Thanks! I will try this tonight when I get home tonight, my system is doing exactly what you described.

I'm glad I can help. Some other observations I have found based on your comment below

As far as Video quality, it seems the HD channels look decent, but I still see a lot of noise in them. I mean I can see the film grain in the picture since a lot of shows are shot on film (maybe that's a good thing?). There's occasional mosquito noise around graphics and sometimes microblocking. I thought FiOS had the upper hand in this area since they have more bandwidth to use, especially over BHN. I'm not unhappy, but kind of expected better. I will give it time though.

I have a 50" KF-50WE610 Grand WEGA LCD rear-projection television and have experienced the same digital noise or pixelation problems. It is definitely intermittent and also depends on the channel. However, I seemed to have better results when changing from component cables to and hdmi-dvi adapter cable (my tv on has dvi inputs). The digital noise is definitely occurring less. I would think the longer you keep the signal digital to the tv, the better.

I also have a 32" Olevia LCD tv upstairs with the same HD DVR box (connected through hdmi) and I'm not surprised to say the picture quality is better upstairs. This is most likely do the the decreased tv size, but also perhaps the newer pure LCD technology. In addition, the SD channels also look better upstairs on the smaller TV, but again due to the obvious.

Overall, I've had Fios for less than a week, and will continue to post my observations!

[breitmeyer]

I was finally able to change the settings on my 6416-2 last night to fix the 4:3 override problem. I set it to "off" like you did to let my TV handle the conversion.

Many thanks again to you Ian for providing the correct way to access the service menus. I tried reading everything about the 6416-2 on the AVS threads, but they are so long it would take a week.