BRANDON HONDA - Buyer Beware

[jaymer]

Hey everyone.
I know its a bit offtopic, so please excuse my post here... but these guys deserve a little "special attention" for their antics.
I realize that no one should ever have to be reminded BUYER BEWARE when dealing with a car salesman... but this is ridiculous.
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On Monday nov 24, I phoned Brandon and was assigned NICK.
I had been out of town for 3 weeks - saw an Odyssey lease deal in Texas and called to inquire if a similar deal was on here.
"both myself and a friend have minivans that we would consider trading in/selling to take advantage of a odyssey" I told him on the phone.
He read me the fine print on an ad they were running - from what I remember it was:
$2500 down
$239/month
39 months
Ody LX

I told him I wanted to bring my van by the next day and verified a used car guy would be there to give me an offer for it. On Tuesday I rang him and told him me and my friend were coming to look at the cars - same plan, no changes, make sure someone can look at my car tonight.

at approx 7:30pm we arrive.
Nick greets us.
At 9pm we are sitting in his office waiting for lease numbers to come back - he had written up 2 worksheets and was processing this through the special "lease software" which comes back with a monthly payment.

we were shocked when he comes out and initially shows us that he can put me in an Odyssey LX for $299/month for 36 months, 12k miles/yr. INCLUDING $5000 for my Van.

We were both kinda stunned and looked at each other. What happened to the $239 price - and that was with only $2500 down.

"Oh, that lease deal is over. I was talking to the manager and he said 'Nick, that deal is over.' "
"But you were reading the adv just last night to me over the phone and you read me all the fine print", I replied.
"Sorry", Nick said, "I didn't see the end date of the program."

So, we got up and hastened out of there as soon as I could retrieve my keys. We had 2 units on the line, and were brought in specifically because of this "theoretical" lease deal that may or may not have EVER been going on. BAIT AND SWITCH its called and its despicable.

My friend had a bad experience at this Honda dealer 8 years ago.
As we were waiting in the office, he said "This is the part I hate - they make you sit here and yada yada yada..." I'm telling him everything will be fine - we changed the subject and talked about other stuff. NO WAY in any scenario could I see this was going to be the waste of time that it truly was.

I had bought 2 cars from this dealership already.
I had my facts (as best I could from being out of town) in order.
I knew of a comparable lease offer in Texas.
We don't appear to be 2 18-year old girls buying their 1st car do we?
Do we have "stupid" written across our foreheads?
This was a simple deal.
Give us numbers on a LX and EX. Base price. Apply my large down payment/deposit coming from the trade. Do some math using the stated $15k residual on the LX vehicle (unknown what the residual is on the EX) and Bobs your uncle.
Instead, these guys decided to play games and waste our time.

Check this out:
He would have me pay $10,800 over 36 months, PLUS my $5000 trade = $15,800.
Now the car is only $25,000 to start - minus my $15,800 and that is $9,200 - but the car is supposed to have a residual of $14+k - so what happened to that $5k - they just did me a favor by taking my car off my hands for me I guess. With these #s, someone should be able to walk in off the street and get an Odyssey, not to mention giving away their car.
When I came home, Cyndi knew about the Honda Lease website and went and found my exact model and ran the online lease estimator at www.hondafinancialservices.com and with only $4k down the payments are $235 - so what was this dealership and sales staff trying to pull on us?

Both Paul and I have a wife and 2 kids. We don't have time to waste, esp. in the holiday season. To throw 2.5 hours away (incl travel) to these jokers is just not right.

In the past, I have been on Honda Lease Loyalty and that has been a reason to come back each year for another Honda.
Making that break after my last lease was one of the best feelings I ever had.
And now that I'm free and others are making competitive Minivans out there, its nice to be able to shop around, which is what we will do now - last night we had a deal without any tough work at all - actually, 2 deals.

They say a rapist or molester or wife beater will only do it again if its not taken care of.
Brandon Honda is the same way.
If they are so stupid to treat two 40-yr old informed men this way on 2 units, then do you think there is ANY DOUBT in our minds how they will treat other people who come in the store... or 2 18-year old girls trying to get a car?

BUYER BEWARE!!!

[CANDY76MAN]

Everything I've read and heard about leasing has led me to believe it's just a scam anyway, real good for the dealerships and bad for the buyer.....it's like renting an apartment instead of buying a house, your paying more (in some cases) to rent a place that you'll never own than you would pay on a mortgage that will eventually be paid off and yours.

[bdraw]

Everything I've read and heard about leasing has led me to believe it's just a scam anyway, real good for the dealerships and bad for the buyer.....it's like renting an apartment instead of buying a house, your paying more (in some cases) to rent a place that you'll never own than you would pay on a mortgage that will eventually be paid off and yours.

A lease can be a great deal. But it is much more complicated so its easier to get screwed.
The comparison to renting does not apply. A home apprciates where a car depreciates.

Bottom line is that dealers are out to make money. Some will try to rip you off.

Jaymer
I would call and report your experience to honda of amercia. You would be surprised how far a email or a phone call would go today.

[jaymer]

guys,
thx for the ideas.

here's how I justified doing a lease IN THIS CASE.

I have a van I recently paid $7k for. And am spending an additional $2k on bumper to bumper ext. warranty. $9 at the end of 3 years will go into this. In 3 years, it may be worth $3500 (or less)

If I did the original lease deal that I saw in Texas, the total out of pocket was $10,800, plus the delivery charge, doc fee., etc. - so about $11,200 - lets say $11k.

So, if I got my money out of the van, and turned it all into the lease, I should end up with something like $100/month payments, and still the total $11k out of pocket at the end of 3 years... sure, no car in hand to sell cause I was renting, but still, I'd have to make the determination if driving new van with new features was better than driving older van with certain mechanical issues (most to be covered under the warranty, but still an inconvenience).

Knowing this up front and having the van to sell, this WAS a deal that I was interested into going into. Its just the numbers didn't add up once we got into the dealership.

I have notified a friend at Tampa Hondaland and he has forwarded this letter to their corporate office in Jacksonville. I'm also scheduled to chat with a rep there this week and we'll see what they have to say.

In my 3 leases in the past, I've not had too much problems. I took a rate I was interested in and was GLAD to get rid of that car at the end of the lease - I don't think either party got "screwed", except that I've always had some annoying problem with every Honda that I've had. The Lease Loyalty program was the only reason to continue with the brand.
Now that I'm free I should actually check into another brand.

[buckeyes]

Sorry to hear about your experience with Brandon Honda. I work as a law enforecment officer, and I currently work with a guy who used to sell cars at Brandon Honda. He flat out told me they used to screw people ALL THE TIME!!! At least you had the stones to get up and walk out.

[bdraw]

In my 3 leases in the past, I've not had too much problems. I took a rate I was interested in and was GLAD to get rid of that car at the end of the lease - I don't think either party got "screwed", except that I've always had some annoying problem with every Honda that I've had. The Lease Loyalty program was the only reason to continue with the brand.
Now that I'm free I should actually check into another brand.

Jaymer
You find a car without any problems, let me know I will buy one too.
The bottom line is that all cars have problems. Cars are too complicated to not have problems. The fact remains that Honda's make some of the best cars. To me this means you get a alot for your money and less problems, than the rest of them.
Dont take my word on it do some reasearch and you will see this is true.

I take offense to your avitar.
I am a big honda fan. I would not conisder buying anything else.
I was the first one in my extended family to buy a honda, and now almost all the member of my family own one.

Your problem is with the independatly owned dealership not with the manufacturer.

[jaymer]

I take offense to your avitar.

now, come on, life's too short to be upset at an avatar!

i've had honda's since 1985 - the 1st one was ok, but there's been a significant (IMHO) problem with each one since then... enough to definitely be glad it was only a lease.

geez, be upset if I put down your speakers or tv set... but not a friggin car!

PS _ if you've noticed, i always change my avatar - its fun and reflects... my current mood. lighten up.

[bdraw]

[quote
now, come on, life's too short to be upset at an avatar!

i've had honda's since 1985 - the 1st one was ok, but there's been a significant (IMHO) problem with each one since then... enough to definitely be glad it was only a lease.

geez, be upset if I put down your speakers or tv set... but not a friggin car!


I would not of choosen the words upset, or mad. Just offensive.
I am pasionate about my purchases, If you had an anti-mitsubishi tv logo I wouldnt like it either.

I am not upset. I am not mad. I just think it is unneccesary. The avitar should be anti brandon honda.

[dprice]

Jaymer,

Don't be suprised when you get a phone call Monday telling you that a "new" lease program is in effect. I went through a similar experience 10 years ago at Stadium Toyota. I went by on a Tuesday night (8:30 pm) to look at a truck and was told the "special program" ended tonight and I had to BUY NOW TO SAVE $1500! I explained to the salesman that I wasn't buying tonight but would be back Thursday (if my review went well and I got a raise). You wouln't believe the look on his face (and the mysterious "sales manager" without whom they can't make a single decision) when I told them I would pay $1500 more on Thursday if the truck actually cost $1500 more on Thursday. YOU WOULD WALK AWAY FROM $1500? he asked. Long story short...a new "special program" started on Thursday. Moral of the story: Don't buy a Toyota on Wednesday.

Don

[BlackCatt]

dprice, I think you need a anti Toyota on Wednesday avatar.

Jaymer, I don't blame you and I like the avatar. You are just expressing your current dislike for a certain brand. Everyone has opinions about brands that they purchase / lease and most people like those brands or something about those brands (hence the reason they purchased) but to be "offended" by someone else having a difference of opinion on brands and sharing that opinion is silly. Also, if you decide to look at a different brand (hope I don't offend anyone by suggesting such a thing) and end up looking at a Chrysler van, let me know. I have a very good friend of mine who is a car salesman (yes, he has told me about such deals) who currently works for Chrysler. Worst case I could at lest ask him what the bottom line best deal he could get for you as a favor to me.

[JCHDTV]

I second that. We are in a free country and expressing our dislikes is our right. Thanks for the heads up because we were looking at Honda Accords and I live in Brandon also, so I might think twice about using that dealership. My sister bought a Honda in Ft. Lauderdale and she had not only an awesome experience but they also gave her the best price plus threw in a few extras and drove the car to her in Naples. She simply faxed what she was willing to pay for a car and its options and didn't deal with any haggling. Good luck in getting what you want!

[Jerry_Pease]

if I was to buy another Honda "again" I would buy from Honda Land.

[MTAS]

Had to throw this in :wink:
http://forums.stangnet.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13330

[jaymer]

SWEEEEEEEEET!!!!
Little tough to get the kids in the back seat, though!

[Viremia]

SWEEEEEEEEET!!!!
Little tough to get the kids in the back seat, though!
Well, that's what they make roof and trunk racks for. :wink:

[StevenA]

My '97 Honda CRV is the first new car I've ever bought, so I don't have anything to compare my experience to, but I've never felt that I was well-treated by either the sales or service staff at Lindell Motors, except for maybe one or two of the service department people. My car was the first CRV sold in Tampa, so it was still somewhat of a novelty. It had 6 miles on the odometer when I bought it, but when I went to pick it up the next day, it had over 40 miles, yet the salesman insisted that nobody had driven the car off the dealership. Also, some of the keys were missing. The salesman tried to make it out like it was no big deal, but I refused to take delivery until they rekeyed the car. The service department has been the absolute pits. I've never been there for repairs or even routine maintenance without having to go back at least two more times before they got it right. Fortunately, the car has been pretty reliable and hasn't needed too many repairs, and I try to avoid the dealership for most of the routine maintenence. I have over 100,000 miles on it and it's still going strong. I thought at one point that I might buy another Honda for my next car, just not at Lindell. However, a coworker who bought his Honda Civic at Tampa Hondaland told me that he has gotten horrible service from that service department. I now think that my next car will likely be the Ford Escape hybrid-electric that's due out next year.

[dvdao]

Its good you posted your experience Jaymer. I was planning on visiting Brandon Honda for the exact lease deal you are speaking of. It will save me time and a trip over there to find out what I already thought was the truth. That truth is, auto sales is one of the most dishonest professions out there. I'm not saying all car sales people are dishonest, just a majority of them. I'm going to be in the market for a new minivan this spring and I am not looking forward to the experience. A car dealership to me is one of those places that you must go home right after a visit and take a shower. Automobile sales is one of the areas I wish the government had more regulation. Only with auto sales can the dealership completely rip you off and get away with it. Such a damn shame! :roll:

[Max_Gator]

Jaymer -

Sorry to hear about your experience. Clear BS and a typical tactic of dealerships. It is almost impossible to avoid. Buying a car is one of the few purchases you make where negotiation is involved - and they don't always play fair. As a result, the only time a car purchase is easy is if you pay their price - or if you come to them with your research says is a fair deal and offer it as a non-negotiable offer (Even then you've got to hassle about fees).

One thing I'll say - in my experience NEVER deal with your trade in until you have a negotiated deal without the trade sitting in front of you. Never give them your car to look at. Never be afraid to be a jerk.

I go so far as to tell the dealership that they cannot look at or evaluate my trade, and that I want to deal without that consideration. IMO when they can negotiate the trade AND the deal at the same time they really try to stick it to you. And that's EXACTLY what they were trying to do to you . . .

[rgreenpc]

Well as Jaymer's "FRIEND" and antenna climbing companion by night... I am also the Customer Relations Manager at Tampa Hondaland and the person Jaymer brought his issues to.

The person who talked to Jaymer and his friend is in the process of no longer being in association with our company ( as both dealerships are owned by the say corporation )

That being said... I am sorry to see at least one of our members knows someone who had a bad experience at Tampa Hondaland.

I take the dealership very personally... and if anyone is mad and I don't know about it then they can't be very upset as all complaints come straight to me. If anyone ever has a Honda issue, if you bought the car from us or not, please let me know... as I have ways of making things happen.

Richard Green
Customer Relations Manager
Tampa Hondaland

and a HDTV freak.

[OccamMD]

Thanks Richard,

Admittedly, my sister-in-law wanted to buy a civic 5 or 6 years back. We where debating between the civic and a saturn (Although the $800 pinstriping and paint sealant that they insisted you take at the tampa saturn dealer stopped that deal immediately, they wouldn't even let you order one without them putting it on). I took her to your dealership and the sales staff was incredibly pushy and for some reason would not let us test drive the car (we had done it in other places?). It was the "Are you going to buy today, if not then go away" scenario. Very strange, but I can tell you that we never came back.

We did buy a civic that week, she had the cash for the whole thing and we just wrote a check. The dealership was in Clearwater, of course they wanted us to buy the paint sealant/protectant package and blah...blah...blah. I negotiated for her because she asked me to, she is a bit timid and gets flustered easily. At one point the salesman refused to talk to me and she had to relay his questions to her, to me, and my answers back. I was sitting right next to her. It was weird. In any event he got so flustered (I think rage might be the word) that he offered the car to her for less than she told him she was willing to pay. we said "SURE", wrote a check and left. We weren't trying to piss him off, we just stood by the number we walked in with. That was how much money she had, plain and simple.

I'm really one of the easiest sales any car salesman could want. I take less than an hour of time. I get on the internet, get prices/incentives. Call around for my make and model and offer a certain amount over/under invoice. Once I find someone that says yes I drive to the dealership, check out the car, say no to every dealer option offered as well as the warranty, write a check for the car and leave.

But honestly, I go past your dealership and think "typical car salesman" thoughts. It sounds like you may have changed that and I will be sure to contact you if we need help on the next purchase.

Thanks for your efforts,
Ray

[imarocker2]

If you can stand making the drive, I reccomend dealing with Hondacars of Bradenton. They are owned by the Hendrick (NASCAR) people and have been great to deal with. About a year ago, I took my high-mileage Accord that had a smashed passenger side mirror to them for repair. Originally, the quote was $300 for a whole new mirror, which I agreed to pay. The service manager called me later in the day to inform me they would be able to replace just the glass for $90, if that was ok with me. They could have soaked me for the $300, but didn't. My car also had the factory clutch still in it and I told them I was thinking of replacing it before it left me stranded on the skyway, but the service tech told me they could do it, but I'd be better off to leave it alone. He was right. I sold that car with 180,000 miles on it and it still ran great. Bottom line is, I trust their service department and they always remember my name. That is a difficult thing to come by!

I recently bought a newer Accord from them for my wife and paid about what I would have from Crown in Pinellas Park (which is right down the street from my office), but the honesty of the service department in Bradenton won me over. The salesman who took care of me had me in and out of there in an hour and a half and we love the new EX!

Head to Bradenton of you want to be treated better by a Honda Dealer. They don't have the typical arrogance of most Honda and Acura dealers...don't get me started on the Acura dealers.

[superbigg]

Jay

Check out this link on NBC Dateline on Car buying

http://www.msnbc.com/news/1001205.asp

Good luck

Super