Problem with Fox 13-1

[Gerryex]

Hi ALL,

For the last couple of days FOX's HD channel (real channel 12) has been stuttering about evey minute or so. The audio cuts out and the picture may or may not pixelate. I'm receiving it with an attic antenna that has not changed and I'm getting the same results on my HDTV and HD Tivo. The HD Tivo signal quality is reading 90 out of 100.

Anyone else having problems with FOX?

Thanks,
Gerry

[Floyd]

I get stuttering on CBS-10-1 and sometimes on Fox-13-1. It's aggravating and is sometimes pretty bad. The signal is usually high when it happens, so I don't know why it happens. I suspect that it's multipath.
Just another reason why ATSC isn't ready for prime time. The receivers should have a diagnostic with graphics to peak in the signal quality, as well as the quantity. There has been a lot of talk on various forums about the stuttering, but I can't recall any solutions.

[bdraw]

I have the same problem with 13-1 and sometimes 10-1.
I have a roof mounted antenna and am only 14 miles from the 13-1 antenna.
In fact I can see the tower from where my antenna is mounted(roof of 3rd story). My HDTivo indicates 90% and my H20 indicates 100%. Considering how good the 5th Gen ATSC tuner in the H20 is supposed to be at multipath I would assume something else is up.
I was just talking to triplesticks about this today and he said he was witnesing the same issues. I assume he was watching via BHN but did not clarify.

Based on the fact we are all having similiar roblem I am going to assume it is a local affiliate issue. Maybe Bryan can call his contact over there and figure something out.

[Bschneider]

That's weird as I am not having any problems with either station.

[Dknow]

I've had 13-1 locked for over two years now without a glitch (except for lightning and other obvious reasons) and I've experienced problems with 13-1 on Sunday during the Bucs game. It's definitely a local affiliate problem.

[rgreenpc]

I have seen some wierd drops as well of late ( never before )

Now that I have 2 HD-Tivos I will set one to record TVT tonight and see what happens.

[Bschneider]

I've had 13-1 locked for over two years now without a glitch (except for lightning and other obvious reasons) and I've experienced problems with 13-1 on Sunday during the Bucs game. It's definitely a local affiliate problem.

I did see those same 'pops' during the Bucs game but I also saw those 'pops' on the ST channel also so I thought it was coming from the national feed.

Let me know if you see the same thing recently and I say something to them.

[rgreenpc]

I know the day is the best time to be looking, but I saw 3 - 4 hiccups per hour, with my meter at 98% the entire time.

[Dknow]

Tonight I was watching "Stacked" for two very obvious reasons and it was the worst that I've seen so far. In and out every 10 seconds or so with my signal strength holding steady at 95%. I hope they have it fixed for saturday's bucs/pats game. Of course there is always D* channel 88 but it doens't look as good as OTA.

[Tarpon65]

Live in Sarasota and have the same problem with Fox 13-1. Glad it's not just me. Seems to happen every three to four minutes, but I've never timed it. Doesn't seem to happen on the other channels, and my Dish 921 reciever says I have a very strong long on the channel.

[mgd2win]

Yep, 13-1 is acting up now during the Bucs game.

FOX NY feed is good on DirectTV

[Bschneider]

Ok.. I will call over at there and talk to them about it..

[bdraw]

Yeah it was rough I had to switch to the NY Feed.
I checked the signal strength on my H20 and it was 100%.


Thanks Bryan.

[Dknow]

I hate to be the conspiracy theorist here but Directv and Fox are closely affiliated and it just so happens that the very week that Directv starts offering local HD channels in our DMA we are all having difficulty receiving our FREE fox HD channel OTA after years of perfect reception. Is it coincidence or is it just dirty marketing?

[bdraw]

I have been having problems for weeks.
I don't see fox Cutting off its nose to spite its face.

[JimD]

I also had glitches and dropouts during the Bucs game every minute or so. A few times the HD dropped back to SD for a few minutes. Very annoying!

[SunsetParkSat]

I just had Direct Tv install H20 box and 5lnb dish last friday at my home in South Tampa (so I could receive local HD). I can't receive any of the local hd's very well. This is happening with FOX, NBC, and ABC. I get horrible pixelation, ghosting, sound is way out of sink and goes in and out, etc.
Impossible to watch on my big screen DLP without frustration.

Just to let you know its not only OTA that has problems.

Installer said they are still working things out...........

[Dknow]

I can tell you right now that is because the dish isn't pointed correctly. I would call and get another tech out there ASAP. You also want to be sure that the B-Band converter is NOT installed in the line. This converter is for an H20 receiver with a MPEG2 dish ONLY.

[bdraw]

DKnow why is the B-Band convert not needed?
I thought it was the other way around.

SunsetParkset,
No need to cross post we all read all the threads.

[Dknow]

I run a crew for Directv and I had a meeting with them about 3 months ago when the first H20's hit the market and that's what we were told. This converter was to allow for H20 installations prior to the AT-9 dish coming out. Also, 95% of service calls we do for the H20 involves someone having a triple sat dish without the converter which causes the unit to lock up with an "acquiring guide" message. One other thing, the new AT-9 dish will NOT support diplexing because of the low frequency of the Ka/Ku band.

[Bschneider]

That's weird.. I have a H20 with the triple sat without the converter installed and I don't have a problem at all.

[SunsetParkSat]

Dknow,
Thanks for info. DirectTv service said they will come out on Friday. Will let you know result.

[bdraw]

I don't have it hooked up to mine either but I have had it reboot while requesting guide data. I will try it with and see how it works.

Dknow,
What will happen if I use a multiswitch with one input wire di-plexed and 1 output connected to the H20 and the other 4 outputs running to my Tivo's?
Will the H20 work at all? Does it matter if the H20 is connected to output 1 or 5?

I only have 4 wires from the roof and can't run another. I need my OTA at least until the MPEG4 DVR is released.

[teampozer]

I was a bit confused over that thing when I opened my H20 as well. From what I understood from the instructions, it's to be used with the new 5LNB dish. Since I'm still using the 3LNB wired to 4 receivers, I didn't install it. If that's wrong, I guess I'd like to know for sure. Anyway, back to what started all this.... I've had zero problems with my H20 except the fact that I too am getting or was getting the blips from WTVT OTA as of last week. Not sure as of this post if it's still happening.

[Dknow]

It will work fine until you get the AT-9 installed. The diplexed signal will interfere with the Ka/Ku band from the new sats. It's not the H20 that isn't compatible with diplexing, it's the new frequencies that the AT-9 will acquire. Again, I haven't seen one fail because of diplexing yet, I was only told by Directv that it wouldn't work. I'll take their word for it.

[bdraw]

Well either way it looks like I am going to find out.

[Gerryex]

After having 13-1 completely go out last Sat (12/24) morning, when it came later that afternoon it seems to be holding steady! I sent an e-mail to WTVT asking about this, but so far have not yet gotten any reply.

Gerry

[SunsetParkSat]

Dknow,
Had directTV tech come out again like you suggested. They sent their expert dish pointer tech - like every tech so far he couldn't speak english.

In addition to re-align, he also replaced my 6x8 switch. No Luck. Still have horrible pixelation and sound out of sink. He told me I should call and have my h20 replaced but I think he was clueless as to why this was happening.

I think I'll wait a few weeks before swapping the h20 and see if this problem is widespread with h20 5lnb users in Tampa - supposedly there are only a few of us so far.

[Bschneider]

I am attempting to get a hold of someone over at WTVT. I just sent an email. And I just got an OOO email back. I will not be able to get an answer to after the new year.

[Dknow]

I'm sorry to hear that didn't get you taken care of. Did the tech have a "birdog"? If not, these are absolutely necessary when locking in the new signals. I also found myself watching the Bucs game yesterday and I realized after about the first quarter that FOX 13 has finally fixed the bug! Way to go guys! It was a pleasure to have a constant signal yesterday.

[Bschneider]

Here is what I got from WTVT


I'm sure everyone has noticed by now, but the problem was ours and was repaired on 12/24.. It turned out to be a bad VCO in the TwinStream STL receiver.. As seems to be the case more and more and as was noticed by some of the entries on the thread, different receivers reacted differently to the errors.. Two of mine were very tolerant, but a third was not at all.. Bright House's receiver(s) was (were) not tolerant at all..

[bdraw]

Thanks for the update Bryan. I am glad they got it fixed and thanks for the explaination.

[Bschneider]

FYI: As of end of 2005, Fox 13 does not share a tower with any other station.

[timco]

Hi all,

I just got my spanking new Sony XBR960 installed. I'm using a Winegard Squareshooter, and I'm in Lakeland. I'm not picking up a digital signal on FOX at all. Every other DT channel is there except FOX. Are they down now, or is there some other anomaly on my side?

[motrac]

Fox 13 is a VHF channel. That Squareshooter is useless for anything on
VHF.

[bdraw]

Timco are you receiving ch 8?
If not then motrac is right you need a vhf antenna. Unfortunately both fox and nbc are on VHF..

[timco]

Timco are you receiving ch 8?
If not then motrac is right you need a vhf antenna. Unfortunately both fox and nbc are on VHF..

Hi Ben,

Yes, I get 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3 fine. I am really at a loss as to what it could be. I'm not above changing out the antenna, but obviously I'd rather avoid it as it's pretty new and seems to be doing a fine job at getting every channel except 13.1.

Thanks!
Tim

[bdraw]

That is very odd. I can't think of any reason why you would recieve 8 but not 13.

You can try a different antenna but it might be something wrong with your reciever.

[timco]

They're both high band VHF, and the Squareshooter is rated as:

• Range for Channels (2-6): 0-10 Miles (Analog), 0-15 Miles (Digital)
• Range for Channels (7-13): 0-35 Miles (Analog), 0-40 Miles (Digital)
• Range for Channels (14-69): 0-45 Miles (Analog), 0-50 Miles (Digital)

I should pick it up. I pick up the analog 13 pretty clearly. I'm only about 15 miles from the tower according to antennaweb.

[bdraw]

The only thing I can think of is a multipath issue.
Hook up an analog tv and see if you see any ghosting.

You can also try to rescan from scratch.

[TripleSticks]

I just bought a Terk TV5 amplified antenna, live in Hyde Park, and get all the local channels in the 90% signal strength range (including 3.5 and 8.1).....except 13.1. I have to move the antenna every time and even when I finally do get it oriented well enough to pick up the signal, it's only in the 40% to 50% signal strength range. I assumed it was just me. Maybe we just live in areas with multi-path issues, but I'm not convinced. Unfortunately, I have no other explanation.

[Bschneider]

It just might be a multipath issue but I doubt it.

Can you get any signal at all? Even if its 10%..

[timco]

It just might be a multipath issue but I doubt it.

Can you get any signal at all? Even if its 10%..

I get no signal at all. The AVS Forums suggested that it's an issue with my Squareshooter, and it's ability (inability) to pick up highband VHF very well. It seems that it picks HB VHF up at a 45 degree angle to the source, and since UHF anf VHF are oriented close together, theoretically, if I moved the antenna to get 13.1, I'd be off center for the other channels.

I figured what the heck, I just wanted to see 13.1, so I trundled to the attic and moved it 45 degrees off of 13.1. I still got no signal there, and obviously, worse signal on the other channels. I moved it back, and said bad things about the mothers of the engineers at Fox.

I'm likely going to try a dedicated 7-13 VHF antenna and join it with the Squareshooter and see what happens. What do you think?

[bdraw]

I don't think it is Fox's fault. I pick that channel up perfectly.

Have you tried to force your tv to re-scan?
Maybe the mapping wasn't working.
Did it find the channel or did you have to specificly tell your tv to tune in? If so what are you getting on 12.1?

[Bschneider]

I'm likely going to try a dedicated 7-13 VHF antenna and join it with the Squareshooter and see what happens. What do you think?

I would definately suggest you go that route.

I went to Home Depot and purchased a basic VHF/UHF, I joined it with two UHF ChannelMaster antennas using a channel 24 jointenna. The UHF frequencys from the Home Depot antenna was blocked out when I joined it to the other UHF antenna. This setup was recommended to me by one of the station engineers.

With that setup I have no problem as I can position each antenna for the VHF and UHF stations.

[Dknow]

If you do add a second antenna just be sure to either use an A/B switch to toggle between the two or find yourself a channel 12 jointenna. Do NOT reverse a splitter. You will see that is a no no.

[timco]

Are there different types of antenna joiners? I thought they pretty much just merged all the signal to a single downlead... Do some only merge certain station ranges?

[bdraw]

There are different types depending on the channel you are using the second antenna for.

I use a ch 24 jointenna. I use an VHF/UHF combo atenna for all the channels except ch24 (cbs10). I use a UHF only antenna for ch24.

If I didn't do that I would have a multipath issue from the two signals. In the past I have used one for vhf and one for uhf.

[timco]

Over the past week I've occassionally lost the signal for 8 as well. It usually comes in, but sometimes drops. I'm guessing because of the same spotty highband VHF coverage. If I were to pickup a 7-13 highband VHF antenna, which antenna joiner would you recommend for both channels? Or am I limited to one channel?

[bdraw]

Something simple like this should work.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103923&cp=&kw=vhf+uhf&parentPage=search

[Bschneider]

Ben - Are you going insane? That will more than llikely cause more multipath problems.

[bdraw]

Why would it?
It is a VHF UHF combiner. Which implies a filter.
I used to use one very similar for a long time.
RS discontinued the one I used to use.

[Bschneider]

That is just a regular splitter that is gold plated. It doesn't split the VHF from UHF or combine VHF to UHF. Now if you have a UHF anntena AND a VHF antenna that would work. But if you have a UHF and a VHF/UHF antenna you would need a jointenna. If you used that splitter it would cause multipath issues because it would combine both UHF antennas and thus overlap.

[bdraw]

Yeah you are right I misssread it.

Thanks for the correction. It doesn't look like they carry one anymore.
Where can you get a normal vhf uhf combiner?

[Floyd]

Before spending the large money for a jointenna, it would never hurt to try a simple splitter like Bdraw suggests. The results will vary from one location to another, but in many circumstances it will work fine. After all, the bay area special antenna set, designed by wineguard, has two antennas that are connected together, and so far, it usually works. It doesn't use a splitter/combiner, the main antenna has extra terminals on it for the second(ch 10) antenna, and I don't see any filtering designed into it.
The splitter from radio shack, and most other VHF/UHF splitters, are rated for 50-900mhz, which covers all off-air and cable frequencies.
I have some special splitter/combiners with filtering inside them that separate or combine VHF and UHF, but they wouldn't work in this situation , since the main antenna is collecting VHF and UHF, and the second antenna is UHF only.

[Dknow]

buy an inexpensive a/b switch and a combiner and see the difference. The a/b switch will simulate the jointenna.