Pace Box settings and DLP

[Max_Gator]

If I set my pace box to 480i and then exit the menu and return, it tells me it is set to 480p on SD channels. Does anyone know why?

I want my DLP to do the scaling but if the box is saying 480p then it seems it is doing the scaling automatically. Or, is it somehow communicating with the TV? Does this happen to anyone else who doesn't have a DLP?

I know the DLP automatically scales 480i to 480p so perhaps there is some communiction.

It does the same thing if I set it to pass.

[Icarus]

Do you have a samsung dlp set? I do, and I just let the pace box do the scaling and use the dvi connection for it. The box does a pretty good job, even on sd. (at least in my non-professional opinion.)

Anyway, I know what you are talking about, and yes, it does do that. Just hit the # key on the remote and it should switch to 480i, or use the s-video out for sdtv if you want to use the chip in your dlp to do the scaling. (I see this more on my other 27" Samsung 4:3 direct view set when watching it via the s-video cable wired through the tivo. The set is capable of 1080i via the component input. Not sure what it thinks it is doing via s-video .. how can the s-video connection do anything other than 480i?)

-David

[bdraw]

The only way I can get my pace box to output 480i is via s-video.

With compenent I can only get 1080i, and 720p.

[Max_Gator]

Icarus - yes, I have a dlp. When I set the pace box to 480i, then hit done, then go back it displays the setting as 480p.

I guess there is nothing I can do on my box to get it to output via dvi at 480i so that my set can scale it from there rather than from the already scaled 480p.

Not sure there'd be much of a difference anyway.

[Icarus]

Why run it at 480i or 480p at all?

I have the box set to output 720p, and use the dvi input on the samsung dlp. Everything looks good like that. The box does a decent job of scaling.

If you want the set to do all the scaling, simply run the s-video and 2nd pair of audio outputs from the pace box to another set of inputs on the set, then you can switch between the dvi input for hd, and use the s-video input for 480i. ZI think the pace box drives all the outputs in parallel. Then you can compare the two to see if it makes any difference with the dlp doing the scaling on the s-video input vs the pace box doing the scaling via the dvi input.

-David

[bdraw]

Icarus has the right Idea. The pace box does output both at the same time. This is the best was to do a side by side comparison.

I have tried this on my set, and I don't see enought of a difference to be worth it to bother switching, since I primarily watch HD.

[Max_Gator]

Why run it at 480i or 480p at all?

I have the box set to output 720p, and use the dvi input on the samsung dlp. Everything looks good like that. The box does a decent job of scaling.

If you want the set to do all the scaling, simply run the s-video and 2nd pair of audio outputs from the pace box to another set of inputs on the set, then you can switch between the dvi input for hd, and use the s-video input for 480i. ZI think the pace box drives all the outputs in parallel. Then you can compare the two to see if it makes any difference with the dlp doing the scaling on the s-video input vs the pace box doing the scaling via the dvi input.

-David

The only problem with that idea is that it would require changing the resolution setting on the box each time you changed inputs.

The point I am making is that I should be able to simply pass the signal through to the TV and let it do the scaling - via DVI. That doesn't SEEM to work.

Apparently, according to the pace box guide, the TV can change the setting on the menu. That may explain why, when I set it to pass/480i it is 480p when I return to the menu. Of course, the guide also says that the box converts 480i to 480p. I guess the short of it is there is just no way to know whether the box or the set is doing the scaling.

Right now, I have it set up the exact same way you do - 720 on the box. Unless it is set to 720/1080 on SD channels, the picture is automatically stretched and I cannot watch it in OAR 4:3. I presume yours is the same way?

[Max_Gator]

Icarus has the right Idea. The pace box does output both at the same time. This is the best was to do a side by side comparison.

I have tried this on my set, and I don't see enought of a difference to be worth it to bother switching, since I primarily watch HD.

The pace box will output both signals at the same time but I'm pretty sure the resolution setting for each must be the same.

I've experimented with a host of different settings and I believe the DVI is the best but that may be colored by my understanding that it is the only setting that doesn't involve digital to analog to digital conversion.

[bdraw]

I've experimented with a host of different settings and I believe the DVI is the best but that may be colored by my understanding that it is the only setting that doesn't involve digital to analog to digital conversion.

If you have a fixed pixel display like a DLP then yet DVI is the way to go. Personally I have a CRT RPTV, so DVI really has no benefit.

I believe that you can only output 480i to the s-video, so I dont know what you mean by "The pace box will output both signals at the same time but I'm pretty sure the resolution setting for each must be the same."

Or by both do you mean the DVI and RGB?

[Icarus]

[quote=Icarus]
Right now, I have it set up the exact same way you do - 720 on the box. Unless it is set to 720/1080 on SD channels, the picture is automatically stretched and I cannot watch it in OAR 4:3. I presume yours is the same way?

No, it works fine the way I have it set up. I have the Samsung HLN 4365. I'm sure that all the HLN's work the same way.

The pace box (press and hold # key) is set to 720p, 16:9 display. I never change those settings.

The TV's aspect ratio is set to "Wide(TV)".

The Pace box aspect control is set to "Normal" (press # briefly to cycle through the pace box aspect ratio controls.)

16:9 source material fills the screen in OAR.

4:3 source material is displayed with black bars on the sides in OAR.

I use the pace box # key (brief press) to adjust the scaling, if you want to zoom 4:3 material. (The choices are "normal" (for OAR), "stretch" (sucks) and "zoom" (chops off a bit of the top and bottom of 4:3 material so it fills the 16:9 screen). Normal and Zoom modes are both very good. Personally, I think "stretch" mode is ridiculous. Note that for 16:9 HD material, the Pace box aspect control should be in "normal" mode.

The only thing I don't like about the pace box 'zoom' mode is that for 4:3 letterbox material (like watching tonights ER on an SD station, or watching Babylon 5 letterboxed SD broadcast on SciFi), the pace box puts one large black bar on top of the screen rather than equal sized black bars on top and bottom of the screen. It must know that it's doing that too, since it favors the bottom of the screen for the image. Not sure why it does that, but it does. Anyway, that's a pretty minor annoyance. At least we have the ability to do the scaling we need with the Pace box.

You are correct that in 720p mode, the Samsung's aspect control only switches between "Wide(TV)" and "Wide(PC)", so you must use the Pace box to do the scaling. Anyway, the Pace box does a fine job of upconverting the signal and scaling it, so it's not a problem. Analog channels look like analog channels, digital channels generally look better than analog channels (though sometimes lots of artifacts) and HD channels look superb.

I know that I'm not using the DCDi chip to do scaling in the Samsung set, but so what? We don't need to use it, but if we ever do need it, it's there. I don't think that the DCDi chip would be significantly better than the Pace boxes scaling anyway. (analog in is still analog in no matter who is doing the scaling, right?)

-David

[Icarus]

The pace box will output both signals at the same time but I'm pretty sure the resolution setting for each must be the same.



I know it is confusing. You can connect the s-video in parallel with the dvi cable, and I'm pretty sure s-video is only capable of 480i. So in this case, the Samsung set should be doing all the scaling. (No matter what the pace box says in the upper left of the screen.) When you switch from dvi to s-video you may need to switch the pace box settings to 4:3 to get things right. You will have to experiment with it to get it right. (On the other hand, you can do what I'm doing as described above, forget about s-video, just go with dvi only, and even the wife gets it right here.)

My other direct view Samsung (non-DLP) set is set up this way. I have the s-video out wired to the tivo and then s-video from the tivo to the display, and component out from the pace box directly to the display, since the display is capable of 1080i. (This gets complicated because it's a 4:3 display, and the 1080i stuff looks wierd on the set unless I change the pace box setting to 16:9 .. long story here, not really applicable to your situation,. but the point is that it is a real PITA to have switch the pace box settings between 4:3 and 16:9 all the time, so most of the time I don't bother doing it.)

-David

[Icarus]

I have to admit here, that I'm making an educated guess about s-video only being capable of carrying 480i. My guess is based on this: If s-video could do 480p, then why did we have to go to component cables when we started adopting progressive-scan dvd players? Certainly component cables are better than s-video since they isolate the three signals, but if s-video could carry a progressive scan signal, it would not have been necessary to switch to component cables to take advantage of progressive scan players, and my understanding is that it was necessary to use component cables to take advantage of the progressive scan output.

I'm not technical enough to claim that I know this is correct, but I believe it to be correct. If I'm wrong, somebody please correct me here.

-David

[Max_Gator]

[quote=Icarus]
Right now, I have it set up the exact same way you do - 720 on the box. Unless it is set to 720/1080 on SD channels, the picture is automatically stretched and I cannot watch it in OAR 4:3. I presume yours is the same way?

No, it works fine the way I have it set up. I have the Samsung HLN 4365. I'm sure that all the HLN's work the same way.

The pace box (press and hold # key) is set to 720p, 16:9 display. I never change those settings.

The TV's aspect ratio is set to "Wide(TV)".

The Pace box aspect control is set to "Normal" (press # briefly to cycle through the pace box aspect ratio controls.)

16:9 source material fills the screen in OAR.

4:3 source material is displayed with black bars on the sides in OAR.

I use the pace box # key (brief press) to adjust the scaling, if you want to zoom 4:3 material. (The choices are "normal" (for OAR), "stretch" (sucks) and "zoom" (chops off a bit of the top and bottom of 4:3 material so it fills the 16:9 screen). Normal and Zoom modes are both very good. Personally, I think "stretch" mode is ridiculous. Note that for 16:9 HD material, the Pace box aspect control should be in "normal" mode.

The only thing I don't like about the pace box 'zoom' mode is that for 4:3 letterbox material (like watching tonights ER on an SD station, or watching Babylon 5 letterboxed SD broadcast on SciFi), the pace box puts one large black bar on top of the screen rather than equal sized black bars on top and bottom of the screen. It must know that it's doing that too, since it favors the bottom of the screen for the image. Not sure why it does that, but it does. Anyway, that's a pretty minor annoyance. At least we have the ability to do the scaling we need with the Pace box.

You are correct that in 720p mode, the Samsung's aspect control only switches between "Wide(TV)" and "Wide(PC)", so you must use the Pace box to do the scaling. Anyway, the Pace box does a fine job of upconverting the signal and scaling it, so it's not a problem. Analog channels look like analog channels, digital channels generally look better than analog channels (though sometimes lots of artifacts) and HD channels look superb.

I know that I'm not using the DCDi chip to do scaling in the Samsung set, but so what? We don't need to use it, but if we ever do need it, it's there. I don't think that the DCDi chip would be significantly better than the Pace boxes scaling anyway. (analog in is still analog in no matter who is doing the scaling, right?)

-David

I understand the settings. That is the way mine is set also. What I was trying to do was find a way for the set to do the scaling via DVI. I wanted to simply pass the signal through to the TV and was surprised that even though I was setting the box to pass or to 480i, it appeared to be scaling SD to 480p.

The short of it is that the Pace box automatically scales 480i to 480p regardless of the setting on the menu unless you use S-Video (or coax).

My comment above was that I thought that if you connected the SVideo to watch SD and DVI to watch HD, you would have to switch the pace box menu setting re: resolution each time you switched between the SVideo and the DVI input. That is wrong because I believe the Pace box automatically passes through the HD signal (or converts it to 1080i).

I think when I first got the box I tested it with svideo and found dvi to be better for sd.

thanks guys!

Now, if you can tell my why CBSHD causes my DLP to lock up when I view the guide half the time I'd really be impressed . . .